Is this button old?

[tford62]

I was just reading the post on the GW button, by the way, I voted banner, and I was wondering if anyone can help me with age on this button I found yesterday. I know it isn't a GW button or nearly so valuable but I was hoping someone could help me approximately date it, I think it may be the oldest thing I have found to date. It has some similarities to the GW, it has a shank and I don't think you can see if from my pictures, but there is a wreath of vines on the reverse. I know, why on the reverse of a flat button Is this old like I think? I haven't cleaned it with anything but water, cuz I didn't want to damage it if it had real age to it. Thank you very much for looking and for any help I get. HH, T.

 

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[texan connection]

Use a loop ora magnifying glass hold it right agienst your lens and it will allow you to get a clear close up

 

[tford62]

I tried to do it with my loop and I don't seem to be able to do it. It is very dark, or not any clearer, maybe I am just not much of a photographer. Sorry, T.

 

[texan connection]

Takes lots of light sunlight is best

 

[tford62]

Do you have any idea on age, Texas? The leaves or vines in the wreath around the underside of the button are similar to that on the reverse of a draped bust large cent from 1794 and 5. Thanks again for any help anyone can give me. T.

 

[johnnyi]

tford62, I was hoping to get a scan of a button I'd found very similar to your's, but my scan is as terrible as my button. Anyway, your's seems to be the machine made style with concave back and defined back lip to the rim) and my guess is that your's dates from around the 1820's, and maybe a decade or two later. I base the guess only on the sites where I've found them, as well as the inclusion of an eagle device on some which dates from this period.

If I'm looking at your scan incorrectly and the back of the rim does not have the flat defined border mentioned above, it might possibly be a "London" marked back, as these also had the wreath device sometimes (no eagle). These are a little earlier I believe.

Your button seems to be resting on its side with the top appearing to the left of the picture. My button to compare is shown upright. On the top of my button is an eagle with upturned wings, head facing left. You might want to check your's and see if there is an eagle above your wreath also . Good luck. It is neat and old.

 

[tford62]

Thanks for the help, this does mean it is the oldest thing I have found, even if it doesn't have a date on it. LOL I am going to try and clean it in plain water in an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and see if I can get better pics afterward. Again, thank you for your help on the date. I do think there is an eagle or something where the wreath meets at the "bottom" of the button. T.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks for the help, this does mean it is the oldest thing I have found, even if it doesn't have a date on it. LOL I am going to try and clean it in plain water in an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and see if I can get better pics afterward. Again, thank you for your help on the date. I do think there is an eagle or something where the wreath meets at the "bottom" of the button. T.

Buckleboy wrote the book on cleaning buttons. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,165857.0.html

 

[tford62]

Thanks for posting that thread, I am glad I didn't use water yet, not sure I have the patience to do the toothpick method, but I will try. Again, thank you for the heads up. T.

 

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My guess is that between the wreaths it says "Plated" or "Gilt." I also think it is a little older than previously mentioned. Around 1800.
Dave.

 

[johnnyi]

Dave, I admit it is difficult identifying this considering the scan and condition, and I'll admit I can't say definately as to it's age, or whether it might possibly be the type we are more familiar with; "London gilt", gilt", etc. which can accompany an earlier wreath. I would point out a couple things again however, which make me believe it is 1820's or a bit later.

First of all, if you look carefully at the button you'll see that the true "bottom" is at the 2 o clock position, and the "top" is at the 8 o clock position. After locating the wreath, it is easy to follow its detail around the perimeter, and once at the "top" you find what appears to be the eagle with upstretched wings (an apparent match to the style of eagle which I provided in the scan of my own button.) That particular style of device did not exist in 1800, but came later.

In addition, if any words "gilt" etc., existed on the button the word would be within the perimeter of the wreath, as the wreath extends completely around the entire border of the button, meeting at the eagle. If you carefully inspect the interior of the button you find absolutely no trace of any words. Yet they would be in relief and more apt to be visible, and yet the wreath is visible, and even the outline of the solder is visible.

I don't think falling within a later period detracts from the button. Any of these early buttons that incorporated patriotic devices are particular interesting, especially when worn by an early Texan who's history would have been raging about when this button was worn. Again, neat find.

 

[tford62]

Guys, I really appreciate all the help on dating and figuring out exactly what is on the reverse of this button. Whether it is from the 1820's to a little earlier, until I find a coin dated 1799 or earlier, this is going to be the oldest thing I have found. When I started this hobby I never imagined an old button could mean so much to me in my collection. LOL HH and enjoy the hobby all.

T.