✅ SOLVED Is this a British Thaler?

[creskol]

Searching an old mill site that dates to the late 1700's and found some of the most cruddy, smashed, worn our stuff I have ever found on one site. This was probably my best find for the day, but I am not real sure what it is. Thought it was a late cent but it seemed way too thick and big. I cleaned it the best I could and here are the results.

 

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[eyemustdigtreasure]

I believe it is a George lll 1797 Cartwheel Penny

 

[nkellam22]

I believe it is a George lll 1797 Cartwheel Penny

Agreed

 

[Mackaydon]

You guys are good !!
Don.....

 

[Red-Coat]

English Thalers were silver, like those produced by other countries.

It does appear to be a 1797 copper 'cartwheel' but it's not possible to tell if it's a penny or a twopence from the pictures. They had the same design and legend, similar diameters (36mm and 38mm respectively), and neither of them carried any indication of denomination. The penny weighed one ounce and the slightly larger but thicker twopence weighed two ounces.

 

[creskol]

Thanks all! Your help is greatly appreciated. Time to mark this one solved!

 

[smokeythecat]

Agreed on George III.

 

[Anduril]

I believe it is a George lll 1797 Cartwheel Penny

Someone is selling one of these on eBay for $2199.00
As much as I detest pennies generally, I wouldn't mind having a couple rolls of these babies laying around!

I had to image-search one online as I'd never heard of a cartwheel penny before.
Nice find!

 

[Red-Coat]

Note again that this design was used for both pennies and twopences, with no indication on the coins of which was which. There is a minor difference in diameter, but a considerable difference in thickness and therefore in weight (1 ounce versus 2 ounces).

As you might imagine, they were deeply unpopular with the general public (save for the fact that they at least did something to alleviate the critical shortage of low-denomination coins in circulation). Shopkeepers and stallholders used them as scale weights for years afterwards.

Brilliant though he was as an engineer and industrialist, Matthew Boulton's cartwheels were a failed experiment, for a variety of reasons not just related to public acceptance of the coins.

 

[creskol]

Note again that this design was used for both pennies and twopences, with no indication on the coins of which was which. There is a minor difference in diameter, but a considerable difference in thickness and therefore in weight (1 ounce versus 2 ounces).

As you might imagine, they were deeply unpopular with the general public (save for the fact that they at least did something to alleviate the critical shortage of low-denomination coins in circulation). Shopkeepers and stallholders used them as scale weights for years afterwards.

Brilliant though he was as an engineer and industrialist, Matthew Boulton's cartwheels were a failed experiment, for a variety of reasons not just related to public acceptance of the coins.

I just measured this one and find it is 36mm. by 3mm thick (just a tiny bit over)

 

[Red-Coat]

I just measured this one and find it is 36mm. by 3mm thick (just a tiny bit over)

36mm would be a penny (vs 38mm for twopence) and should weigh one ounce.

 

[creskol]

36mm would be a penny (vs 38mm for twopence) and should weigh one ounce.

Thanks Red-Coat I appreciate the info on this.