...hmm...Is Odyssey Marine Columbia's "investor" for the San Jose revovery?
- Thread starter Jolly Mon
- Start date
...hmm...
San Jose Book
Don't bother buying the book called "The Treasure of the San Jose" by Carla Rahn Phillips. At least 70 pages before it gets to the San Jose. It is more about government corruption and monetary exchange rates in the New World. Just borrow from the library.
Sorry for the distraction from the thread.
Don't bother buying the book called "The Treasure of the San Jose" by Carla Rahn Phillips. At least 70 pages before it gets to the San Jose. It is more about government corruption and monetary exchange rates in the New World. Just borrow from the library.
Sorry for the distraction from the thread.
- Jun 3, 2007
- 1,207
- 2,046
- Detector(s) used
- A sharp eye, an AquaPulse and a finely tuned shrimp fork.
- Primary Interest:
- Shipwrecks
and the saga continues:
"[FONT="]Bogota (AFP) — Colombia on Friday opens bidding for investors willing to retrieve billions of dollars in gold and silver from an 18th century ship wreck off the country's Caribbean coast.[/FONT][FONT="]The Spanish galleon "San Jose" was the main ship in a fleet carrying gold and silver — likely extracted from Spanish colonial mines in Peru and Bolivia — and other valuables back to King Philip V.[/FONT]
[FONT="]It sank in June 1708 during combat with British warships attempting to take its cargo, as part of the War of Spanish Succession. Only a handful of the ship's crew of 600 survived.[/FONT]
[FONT="]President Juan Manuel Santos wants to form a public-private partnership to retrieve the shipwreck items, and build a museum for the recovered pieces and a laboratory to study and conserve the material.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The scientific and legal parameters to join the partnership will be made public Friday at a hearing in the Caribbean city of Cartagena. Colombia has not set an official value to the wreck, but experts in 1980 estimated that the treasure was worth some $10 billion.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Treasure hunters have long searched for the "San Jose," described as the Holy Grail of shipwrecks. Santos gushed soon after the wreck was discovered in November 2015 that it was "the most valuable treasure found in the history of humanity."
[/FONT]
[FONT="]The government says there is no pending litigation over the wreckage or the galleon's loot, even though Spain insists it is the rightful owner because the "San Jose" was Spanish.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Spain in part has based its arguments on UN Law of the Sea — a treaty that Colombia never signed.[/FONT]
[FONT="]US-based company Sea Search Armada, whose subsidiary claimed in the early 1980s that it had found the galleon, was engaged in a long-running ownership battle with the Colombian government.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The find however was not confirmed, and in 2011 a US court ruled that the wreck was Colombian property.[/FONT]
[FONT="]A team of Colombian and foreign researchers, including a veteran of the group that discovered the wreck of the Titanic in 1985, studied winds and currents of the Caribbean 307 years ago and delved into colonial archives in Spain and Colombia searching for clues.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The San Jose has long been the source of fascination and popular legends, and even figures in Gabriel Garcia Marquez's novel "Love in the Time of Cholera."[/FONT]
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/colombia-taking-bids-retrieval-billion-150747440.html
"[FONT="]Bogota (AFP) — Colombia on Friday opens bidding for investors willing to retrieve billions of dollars in gold and silver from an 18th century ship wreck off the country's Caribbean coast.[/FONT][FONT="]The Spanish galleon "San Jose" was the main ship in a fleet carrying gold and silver — likely extracted from Spanish colonial mines in Peru and Bolivia — and other valuables back to King Philip V.[/FONT]
[FONT="]It sank in June 1708 during combat with British warships attempting to take its cargo, as part of the War of Spanish Succession. Only a handful of the ship's crew of 600 survived.[/FONT]
[FONT="]President Juan Manuel Santos wants to form a public-private partnership to retrieve the shipwreck items, and build a museum for the recovered pieces and a laboratory to study and conserve the material.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The scientific and legal parameters to join the partnership will be made public Friday at a hearing in the Caribbean city of Cartagena. Colombia has not set an official value to the wreck, but experts in 1980 estimated that the treasure was worth some $10 billion.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Treasure hunters have long searched for the "San Jose," described as the Holy Grail of shipwrecks. Santos gushed soon after the wreck was discovered in November 2015 that it was "the most valuable treasure found in the history of humanity."
[/FONT]
[FONT="]The government says there is no pending litigation over the wreckage or the galleon's loot, even though Spain insists it is the rightful owner because the "San Jose" was Spanish.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Spain in part has based its arguments on UN Law of the Sea — a treaty that Colombia never signed.[/FONT]
[FONT="]US-based company Sea Search Armada, whose subsidiary claimed in the early 1980s that it had found the galleon, was engaged in a long-running ownership battle with the Colombian government.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The find however was not confirmed, and in 2011 a US court ruled that the wreck was Colombian property.[/FONT]
[FONT="]A team of Colombian and foreign researchers, including a veteran of the group that discovered the wreck of the Titanic in 1985, studied winds and currents of the Caribbean 307 years ago and delved into colonial archives in Spain and Colombia searching for clues.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The San Jose has long been the source of fascination and popular legends, and even figures in Gabriel Garcia Marquez's novel "Love in the Time of Cholera."[/FONT]
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/colombia-taking-bids-retrieval-billion-150747440.html
Marine Archaeology Int.
Jr. Member
No, they are not.
In previous press, Colombia said they would reveal the investor on July 14th....did they do that?
Some rumors that WHOI will be on the team, as it appears they were the team that found the current location? That would be interesting.
Some rumors that WHOI will be on the team, as it appears they were the team that found the current location? That would be interesting.
Last edited:
Marine Archaeology Int.
Jr. Member
They did not revel the investor, nor did they disclosed what the percentages will be in the split (the law says "up to 50%"... emphasis on "up"). According to APP law (Public Private Associations) they do not have to do this until the contract is finalized (60 days from the July 14th presentation). Until then, any company has a chance to submit a competing proposal to the government (not that they will accept it though).
WHOI was on the discovery team, but they are not the originator of the project nor the main investor.
huntsman53
Gold Member
I would question as to why WHOI would be on the discovery team on finding a Spanish shipwreck and a valuable one at that or why that they possibly could be an originator and/or main investor in such a project??!! WHOI gets much of their funding directly and indirectly from the United States Federal Government via NOAA (which I was an employee of until I retired), the Office of Naval Research, the National Science Foundation and probably others as well. The possibility that the WHOI could influence the Officials in the Government of Colombia and keep a U.S. licensed Treasure Salvor business from getting the contract to salvage the San Jose, IMHO is a conflict of interest. Not saying they would but they could possibly be pushed one way or another by a Funder/Contributor. Maybe I am just over thinking too much on this but I question why the WHOI was even needed except possibly to give technical advice or help with equipment used in the search.
Frank
Last edited:
- Jun 3, 2007
- 1,207
- 2,046
- Detector(s) used
- A sharp eye, an AquaPulse and a finely tuned shrimp fork.
- Primary Interest:
- Shipwrecks
I received this message from someone that should know but who <apparently> doesn't want anyone to know that he knows:
"The principal investor is Visa Gold Explorations from Canada. I recognized the picture of the President of Visa."
I know Visa was doing some business in Cuba at one time, but I hadn't heard much of them since their crash into the dirt in 2005-2007.
This should be interesting to say the least, particularly where they might have found that much funding.
><><>
I can't imagine Woods Hole being at all interested in wreck recovery with a Mission/Vision statement like theirs. They are pretty much pure science (unless a project comes up that will provide significant long term funding for the Institute, which is a private entity).
Their Mission/Vision statements:
"[FONT="]The ocean is a defining feature of our planet and crucial to life on Earth, yet it remains one of the planet’s last unexplored frontiers. For this reason, WHOI scientists and engineers are committed to understanding all facets of the ocean as well as its complex connections with Earth’s atmosphere, land, ice, seafloor, and life—including humanity. This is essential not only to advance knowledge about our planet, but also to ensure society’s long-term welfare and to help guide human stewardship of the environment. WHOI researchers are also dedicated to training future generations of ocean science leaders, to providing unbiased information that informs public policy and decision-making, and to expanding public awareness about the importance of the global ocean and its resources.[/FONT][h=3]Mission Statement[/h][FONT="]The Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution is dedicated to research and education to advance understanding of the ocean and its interaction with the Earth system, and to communicating this understanding for the benefit of society."
[/FONT]
"The principal investor is Visa Gold Explorations from Canada. I recognized the picture of the President of Visa."
I know Visa was doing some business in Cuba at one time, but I hadn't heard much of them since their crash into the dirt in 2005-2007.
This should be interesting to say the least, particularly where they might have found that much funding.
><><>
I can't imagine Woods Hole being at all interested in wreck recovery with a Mission/Vision statement like theirs. They are pretty much pure science (unless a project comes up that will provide significant long term funding for the Institute, which is a private entity).
Their Mission/Vision statements:
"[FONT="]The ocean is a defining feature of our planet and crucial to life on Earth, yet it remains one of the planet’s last unexplored frontiers. For this reason, WHOI scientists and engineers are committed to understanding all facets of the ocean as well as its complex connections with Earth’s atmosphere, land, ice, seafloor, and life—including humanity. This is essential not only to advance knowledge about our planet, but also to ensure society’s long-term welfare and to help guide human stewardship of the environment. WHOI researchers are also dedicated to training future generations of ocean science leaders, to providing unbiased information that informs public policy and decision-making, and to expanding public awareness about the importance of the global ocean and its resources.[/FONT][h=3]Mission Statement[/h][FONT="]The Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution is dedicated to research and education to advance understanding of the ocean and its interaction with the Earth system, and to communicating this understanding for the benefit of society."
[/FONT]
I didnt think that Visa Gold Exploration was still in operation.
Visa Gold Explorations - current state of Cuba shipwreck business - Cuba Business News - Havana Journal
They had work in Cuba, but never heard what happened with all of that, bunch of news on shiowreck finds, but never anything on recoveries. As the 'investor', this seems a bit of a stretch. Ed Burtt was involved, but I dont beleive he does or would have anything to do with VGE.
I understand that they will not be the investor, and they are hired by Colombia for the first search/location effort. I am just wondering if they be contracted to further the recovery?
WHOI was working the Antikythera wreck, the Black Sea shipwrecks, and many others. Robert Ballard is/was involved. Perhaps his group on the recovery, they are very active.
Visa Gold Explorations - current state of Cuba shipwreck business - Cuba Business News - Havana Journal
They had work in Cuba, but never heard what happened with all of that, bunch of news on shiowreck finds, but never anything on recoveries. As the 'investor', this seems a bit of a stretch. Ed Burtt was involved, but I dont beleive he does or would have anything to do with VGE.
I understand that they will not be the investor, and they are hired by Colombia for the first search/location effort. I am just wondering if they be contracted to further the recovery?
WHOI is private and independent, and works these types of projects all over the world, just like TAMU. The already did the search that found the current location. How are they keeping an American TH Company off the site?
WHOI was working the Antikythera wreck, the Black Sea shipwrecks, and many others. Robert Ballard is/was involved. Perhaps his group on the recovery, they are very active.
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huntsman53
Gold Member
Corrected:
Yes, WHOI is private and independent but get much of their funding directly and indirectly from the U.S. Federal Government through Government agencies and other somewhat tied entities. I am not saying it would happen but the possibility exists that Government officials could pressure WHOI to influence Colombian officials in choosing a Salvage Company other than one headquartered and licensed in the United States. When you control or influence control of funding and can pull that funding to entities such as WHOI, it is not hard for most entities to be extorted to do something that they normally would not do! We all know what happened with Odyssey Marine Exploration when the Federal Government influenced the Courts to find in favor of Spain, right??!!
Frank
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Marine Archaeology Int.
Jr. Member
Guys, please notice that it is COLOMBIA (not Columbia)
ummm, of course.
MAI...any idea if WHOI will be on the next recovery. From my perspective, they have more than adequate search, recovery, and conservation capabilites.
To me this makes sense, as they did the first one.
It also makes sense as to why an investor is required.
Marine Archaeology Int.
Jr. Member
The short answer is that I don't know if WHOI will be part of the excavation. I did heard about a sophisticated French underwater archaeologist team for the main recovery workout. The government of Colombia shared some technical details about the so-called Intervention Phase. It includes setting up a set of parallel railing along the wreck site, a platform 12" above the wreck surface, a robot to remove piece-by-piece an estimated 10 million individual artifacts (they do no use the word "treasure"), a system to record x,y, and z coordinates on each individual item recovered, a statement that the hull itself will stay in-situ and also that all the decking planks that have to be removed will be recovered and treated, and some sort of sucking and blowing water system to conduct the excavation itself. I also heard that the recovering team plans to do the recovery of main wreck site all at once in one extended 6 months effort (hard to believe, but true).
Sounds like they are pretty serious about this recovery. The French have some outstanding equipment and pride themselves on advancements.
https://phys.org/news/2016-04-france-humanoid-underwater-exploration-robot.html
https://phys.org/news/2016-04-france-humanoid-underwater-exploration-robot.html
- Jun 3, 2007
- 1,207
- 2,046
- Detector(s) used
- A sharp eye, an AquaPulse and a finely tuned shrimp fork.
- Primary Interest:
- Shipwrecks
That's going to be the deepest version of a pick and place robot ever. It will be interesting to see how that works...
re: the humanoid robot in that link- I do not see any advantage to going to the trouble of packaging the bot in humanoid form, although having arms articulated in a similar manner to a human would make training operators a lot easier.
Although I have presently have no somewhat intact wreck to use it on, I've been toying with the idea of a similar 3D imaging setup for a wreck site, with stainless or aluminum pipe rails on two sides of the site and a flexible sliding gantry- similar to a CNC router setup- where a 3D camera traverses the wreck site every couple of hours and records every change made to the site. In poor visibility locations, a sonar unit could be used to produce similar results.. Accompanying that would be a GoPro on each corner recording the work day.
re: the humanoid robot in that link- I do not see any advantage to going to the trouble of packaging the bot in humanoid form, although having arms articulated in a similar manner to a human would make training operators a lot easier.
Although I have presently have no somewhat intact wreck to use it on, I've been toying with the idea of a similar 3D imaging setup for a wreck site, with stainless or aluminum pipe rails on two sides of the site and a flexible sliding gantry- similar to a CNC router setup- where a 3D camera traverses the wreck site every couple of hours and records every change made to the site. In poor visibility locations, a sonar unit could be used to produce similar results.. Accompanying that would be a GoPro on each corner recording the work day.
Marine Archaeology Int.
Jr. Member
yes, but cannot comment at this time
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