Is it time to give up on all the clues and maps?

[Steamboat]

Is it time to give up on all the clues and maps concerning the LDM?
The first generation of hunters, Julia Thomas, Dick Holmes, etc. used the clues, maps, etc. and didn't find anything. The second generation, Brownie Holmes, etc. used the clues , maps, etc. and didn't find anything.
Since then maybe a 1000 Dutch hunter have used the clues and maps and have not found anything.
A definition of insanity is to "Do the same thing over and over again and expect different results."
Today no one knows for sure if the clues, etc. actually came from Jacob Waltz or if he did give clues if the ones today are the same.
I know some have claimed to have found the mine, but to prove their claim they need to produce ore that matches that in the match box. I am not aware that anyone has done that.

 

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[Dirt1955]

Is it time to give up on all the clues and maps concerning the LDM?
The first generation of hunters, Julia Thomas, Dick Holmes, etc. used the clues, maps, etc. and didn't find anything. The second generation, Brownie Holmes, etc. used the clues , maps, etc. and didn't find anything.
Since then maybe a 1000 Dutch hunter have used the clues and maps and have not found anything.
A definition of insanity is to "Do the same thing over and over again and expect different results."
Today no one knows for sure if the clues, etc. actually came from Jacob Waltz or if he did give clues if the ones today are the same.
I know some have claimed to have found the mine, but to prove their claim they need to produce ore that matches that in the match box. I am not aware that anyone has done that.

I believe Ted Cox found it, and Ron Feldman who searched the western supes for 25 plus years, after receipt of Ted's research, refound the LDM in the eastern superstitions. I also believe the Peraltas, Not Peralta and Kenworthy found gold in the western superstitions, but that it was not the LDM. Feldman just needs to publish his findings with photographs. I'm sure he has his reasons for not doing so.

 

[Mc4500]

I believe Ted Cox found it, and Ron Feldman who searched the western supes for 25 plus years, after receipt of Ted's research, refound the LDM in the eastern superstitions. I also believe the Peraltas, Not Peralta and Kenworthy found gold in the western superstitions, but that it was not the LDM. Feldman just needs to publish his findings with photographs. I'm sure he has his reasons for not doing so.

Um yeah he has a reason - he passed away a few months ago.

 

[somehiker]

Um yeah he has a reason - he passed away a few months ago.

??.....link please !

The book......https://mammothminerockshop.com/new-autobiography-now/

 

[azdave35]

Um yeah he has a reason - he passed away a few months ago.

ron is alive and well

 

[Mc4500]

ron is alive and well

Really? I could have sworn he passed. Well then I am very sorry for my mistake!

 

[Steamboat]

If Cox and Ron Feldman found the LDM, did they use any of the clues and maps to find it?
If they did in fact find it, where is the proof?
Has anyone read Ron's latest book? I bought and read his Son's book "Jacob's Trail". I wish I had saved my money. I feel the book was very badly written. It has a lot of Arizona history that has nothing to do with Jacob Waltz. Any high school history book has better written more accurate history in it than "Jacob's Trail". As far as Jacob Waltz, I really didn't learn anything new from the book.

 

[azdave35]

If Cox and Ron Feldman found the LDM, did they use any of the clues and maps to find it?
If they did in fact find it, where is the proof?
Has anyone read Ron's latest book? I bought and read his Son's book "Jacob's Trail". I wish I had saved my money. I feel the book was very badly written. It has a lot of Arizona history that has nothing to do with Jacob Waltz. Any high school history book has better written more accurate history in it than "Jacob's Trail". As far as Jacob Waltz, I really didn't learn anything new from the book.

really?...i've read jesse's book and thought it was very well researched and written...i've also read rons book and loved it....by the way if you are looking for the solve to the ldm in a book you will be looking for a long time...that's not why these books were written

 

[393stroker]

Um yeah he has a reason - he passed away a few months ago.

I think you`re thinking of Charlie LeSueur.

 

[txtea]

I think you`re thinking of Charlie LeSueur.

Or perhaps Tom Kollenborn ?

 

[Dirt1955]

If Cox and Ron Feldman found the LDM, did they use any of the clues and maps to find it?
If they did in fact find it, where is the proof?
Has anyone read Ron's latest book? I bought and read his Son's book "Jacob's Trail". I wish I had saved my money. I feel the book was very badly written. It has a lot of Arizona history that has nothing to do with Jacob Waltz. Any high school history book has better written more accurate history in it than "Jacob's Trail". As far as Jacob Waltz, I really didn't learn anything new from the book.

Steamboat, no one in their right mind will ever "DIRECTLY" publish an actual find. Too much regulatory oversight and legal fights. You will have to use deductive reasoning, research all factual material, approach it like solving a murder, and the solve will jump out at you. I started researching Ted Cox claims 20 years ago and set my research aside until...Ron Feldman started the H.E.A.T. project and ultimately revealed he had obtained Ted Cox research from Teds wife after he passed away. Bit by bit Ron has revealed small nuggets of his work on the LDM. He's smart, and been at this game for a long time. Writing "Historical Fiction" books, he has a few, he has revealed pieces of the legend in each. I've always had an open mind on the LDM, research even the most absurd leads, and set them aside in case something develops later. The Ted Cox story and Ron Feldman connection has a lot of plausible truth to it. Is it the Dutchman? Who knows, doesn't matter, they both found gold. 2 points to start with. The geology in the eastern supers has gold bearing quartz. Ted Cox (deceased) and Ron Feldman are real people who had/have extensive knowledge about the area, history, and people connected to the LDM. Back to your original question...should one give up on the clues? I would say no, just fill in the blanks with all the verifiable facts available (research). Determine the highest percentage location and put boots on the ground. I wish you well and hope you are successful in your pursuit.

 

[wrmickel1]

Is it time to give up on all the clues and maps concerning the LDM?
The first generation of hunters, Julia Thomas, Dick Holmes, etc. used the clues, maps, etc. and didn't find anything. The second generation, Brownie Holmes, etc. used the clues , maps, etc. and didn't find anything.
Since then maybe a 1000 Dutch hunter have used the clues and maps and have not found anything.
A definition of insanity is to "Do the same thing over and over again and expect different results."
Today no one knows for sure if the clues, etc. actually came from Jacob Waltz or if he did give clues if the ones today are the same.
I know some have claimed to have found the mine, but to prove their claim they need to produce ore that matches that in the match box. I am not aware that anyone has done that.

Why would you match ore from AZ with ore from California. You do realize the Matchbox was never in play with Lost Dutchman’s Mine till around 1970 then it was only Alleged to be. Now it’s warped into Authentic.
Its not true, Paid for by the guy who owns it now. I found almost identical pieces made by the same company. Dr. Glover took it alittle further in his Latest Book and proved it not to be.

As for giving up on the clues no, keep going look for the pot of gold you’ll be in better health for it.

Babymick1

 

[azdave35]

Why would you match ore from AZ with ore from California. You do realize the Matchbox was never in play with Lost Dutchman’s Mine till around 1970 then it was only Alleged to be. Now it’s warped into Authentic.
Its not true, Paid for by the guy who owns it now. I found almost identical pieces made by the same company. Dr. Glover took it alittle further in his Latest Book and proved it not to be.

As for giving up on the clues no, keep going look for the pot of gold you’ll be in better health for it.

Babymick1

"Paid for by the guy who owns it now"...what was paid for by the guy that owns it now?...the matchbox?..are you saying the present owner had it made?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Why would you match ore from AZ with ore from California. You do realize the Matchbox was never in play with Lost Dutchman’s Mine till around 1970 then it was only Alleged to be. Now it’s warped into Authentic.
Its not true, Paid for by the guy who owns it now. I found almost identical pieces made by the same company. Dr. Glover took it alittle further in his Latest Book and proved it not to be.

As for giving up on the clues no, keep going look for the pot of gold you’ll be in better health for it.

Babymick1

Which company are you saying made the matchbox?

Your assertion that Dr. Glover proved the matchbox ore not to be from the LDM is frankly just not the case. Re-read that part, amigo.

For those that don't have the book: There's a tiny piece of ore (one of the triangles) in the matchbox that contains tellurium. No other portion tested did.

Au-Te and Ag-Te ores are rarely reported in AZ and none have historically been associated with the Superstitions area. I believe this is what Mick is referring to, but he should correct me if I'm mistaken.

The presence of telluride ore in one small triangle proves nothing. Dr. Glover pretty much explained that in his book. Keep in mind that the sample sizes were extremely small as well; The SEM/EDS testing done on the ore gives a very small (microscopic) sample which represents such a small percentage it's really not good for much other than preliminary analysis.

It raises a few questions, gives a preliminary idea of mineral composition, but it's a far cry from proof of ANYTHING....and.... Dr. Glover NEVER said otherwise in his book.

 

[markmar]

Why would you match ore from AZ with ore from California. You do realize the Matchbox was never in play with Lost Dutchman’s Mine till around 1970 then it was only Alleged to be. Now it’s warped into Authentic.
Its not true, Paid for by the guy who owns it now. I found almost identical pieces made by the same company. Dr. Glover took it alittle further in his Latest Book and proved it not to be.

As for giving up on the clues no, keep going look for the pot of gold you’ll be in better health for it.

Babymick1

Mickel1

There are and more other stuff made by the LDM ore, which still exist and were compared to the matchbox. They were found to be identical ore with that which Waltz had under his bed.
The person who owned the matchbox in the first place, left a will to his wife how if he would die first, the matchbox to be given to the Holmes family.
You can't change history but only your own theory.

 

[wrmickel1]

Mickel1

There are and more other stuff made by the LDM ore, which still exist and were compared to the matchbox. They were found to be identical ore with that which Waltz had under his bed.
The person who owned the matchbox in the first place, left a will to his wife how if he would die first, the matchbox to be given to the Holmes family.
You can't change history but only your own theory.

Markmar

Science proved it by Dr Glover, So all the other ones I saw and held are all Dutchman’s Gold to.
Their not so rare after all I guess. History been changed all right but not by me. The Matchbox
was made from a stock box off the shelf inlays added period. Nothing more to it.

Guaranteed if Brownie never did a Affidavit the buyer of the box would have never bought it.

Babymick1

 

[azdave35]

Markmar

Science proved it by Dr Glover, So all the other ones I saw and held are all Dutchman’s Gold to.
Their not so rare after all I guess. History been changed all right but not by me. The Matchbox
was made from a stock box off the shelf inlays added period. Nothing more to it.

Guaranteed if Brownie never did a Affidavit the buyer of the box would have never bought it.

Babymick1

mick...you are just making stuff up..you have no idea what you are talking about...the owner of the matchobx didn't buy it..it was given to him...get your facts straight before you come on here spouting off..you get caught in a lie every time you do it..you think you'd know better by now

 

[deducer]

mick...you are just making stuff up..you have no idea what you are talking about...the owner of the matchobx didn't buy it..it was given to him...get your facts straight before you come on here spouting off..you get caught in a lie every time you do it..you think you'd know better by now

He's been doing that from day one, as do most of the trolls on here.

The reason he keeps coming back is because posters engage with him and reply to his posts. If everyone just ignored his posts, he would stop.

That is how you keep this forum free of trolls. A very simple thing to do but nobody does it.

 

[azdave35]

He's been doing that from day one, as do most of the trolls on here.

The reason he keeps coming back is because posters engage with him and reply to his posts. If everyone just ignored his posts, he would stop.

That is how you keep this forum free of trolls. A very simple thing to do but nobody does it.

agreed

 

[Steamboat]

I don't pretend to be an expert on the matchbox or any thing else under discussion. I grew up in Phoenix and hiked trails in the Superstition mountains and have always been interested in the LDM.
In the program "Mystery's of the Superstition Mountains" which is on Youtube and also Amazon Prime there is a segment where I think it is Clay Worst talks about the gold ore under the Dutchman's bed. He talks about the matchbox and seems to have documentation that it was indeed made from the Dutchman's ore.
He also was present when the matchbox was compared with gold ore from Gold Field, and ore from the Vulture mine. The matchbox ore was "dissimilar" to the other ores.
That is why I feel that anyone who claims to have found the LDM needs to provide ore that compares with the ore in the matchbox in order to prove their claim. Just finding gold is not enough. At least not enough for me.