Interesting building technique ( Stage Stop )

[haybudden2]

Has anyone come across any old buildings built
like this one.
The bricks are on the inside between the studs
with an old wood conventional exterior.
All four exterior walls are like this.
It was an old stagecoach stop.
Any thoughts ?

Hay2

 

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[mile-ender]

Re: Interesting building technique

Can't tell ya much myself, but that's a really nice pic

 

[fyrffytr1]

Re: Interesting building technique

It looks like a brick structure that has been covered over. I agree, that is a cool picture.

 

[Lucas]

Fairly common in Europe, not common here, but not unknown. Most American examples are post and beam, but yours appears to be balloon frame? That would make it a rare bird.

 

[TiredIron]

I think the original poster was referring to the brick lining of the walls more than the Balloon style of framing.....I think this is called "nogging" when bricks or rock are used as an attempt to insulate. It has no structural intent.
http://www.inspectapedia.com/interiors/bricklinerJW2.JPG
http://research.history.org/Coffeehouse/blog/images//attached/nogging2.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4309679857_15ecc74c68_o.jpg

Brick Wall Lining in Older Homes

Brick wall "insulation" or brick nogging may be found in wood framed buildings built up to about 1900. Usually these homes have exterior clapboards and interior plaster walls.

An owner of such a home usually finds out about the brick in the home walls at the first renovation or wiring or plumbing project. But a home inspector and home buyer might also be able to detect brick-lined walls and should be interested in what this construction method might mean to the new owner.

These bricks are not structural, and they were simply mortared in place between wood framed wall studs and rested on the sill plates of each floor. It would be unusual to find brick wall linings in interior walls unless at one time the "interior" wall was at one time a building exterior wall structure.

Brick Nogging was generally not intended to be exposed to view, and served the purpose of blocking wind that blew through older homes constructed without an exterior sheathing - clapboards were nailed directly to the structural frame. Typical wall construction was stud framing, 16" o.c., diagonal wood bracing in walls, clapboard exterior, rough masonry wall filler on all floors and extending into the attic. Interior walls were covered by plaster on wood lath.

Opening walls filled with brick nogging or other masonry will often reveal rough and varying styles of masonry (as it was not intended to be seen) that went in fast. The masons may have used a variety of bricks and rubble. I [DF] suspect that this construction method may have been adopted by builders who had observed the short life and pest infestation problems that followed colonial and later attempts at wall insulation using natural materials like straw and corncobs.

Websters Dictionary gives this definition: "Nogging: (?), n. Rough brick masonry used to fill in the interstices of a wooden frame, in building."
Wordnet Dictionary gives this similar definition: "Noun 1. nogging - rough brick masonry used to fill in the gaps in a wooden frame". "Nogging" is a term also used by some to describe exposed brick lining in timber framed walls in which the brick is left in view on the building exterior for aesthetic reasons.

Because brick (or other masonry) placed in building cavities as a wind barrier and thermal mass source was in that use not intended to be exposed, you can expect to see the workmanship quite rough in appearance and inconsistent from one building area to another (as any and various masonry material at hand might be used) compared with masonry intended to be left exposed to view.
Some Considerations for Homes with Brick Lined Walls - Brick Nogging

* House Age: Brick nogging helps set a possible age for the home. Houses built between 1810 and 1900, or perhaps earlier may have brick-lined walls. I [Friedman] found brick nogging lining the walls of a 1790 house in Poughkeepsie NY. So finding bricks in your house walls is often a clue about when it was built.
* Insulating Value of Brick Wall Lining: Brick has an "R" value estimated at about 0.11", so a brick lined wall has an R-value of something like R1 overall (including the wood siding and interior plaster) - pretty low compared with modern R11-R20 walls. Adding conventional insulation such as fiberglass batts, blown-in fiberglass, or blown-in cellulose or foam (to save heating and cooling costs) are not an option unless walls are stripped from inside or outside first, and bricks removed. In an extensive old house renovation, if the project includes replacing exterior siding or interior wall surfaces, and in homes where accurate historic preservation of original construction materials and details is not a requirement, it is common to remove all of the wall-lining bricks in order to substitute a more effective insulating material. Owners who have taken this step (such as the Weismans) report a significant reduction in home heating costs.
* Weight of Brick-Lined Walls: Alan Carson, (Carson Dunlop Associates, Toronto) estimates that weight would be about 400 lb. per stud cavity per floor. (Clay bricks weigh about 150 lb./cu. ft.). If the structure is damaged by rot or insects, or modified by "remodeling" there is risk that the added weight of bricks in upper floor walls could require additional support. Beware of remodeling on lower floors which includes the removal of bricks in the wall cavities - it may be necessary to add support to be certain that weight of brick lining upper floor walls does not cause a structural problem for the lower floors.
* Brick Wall Liners and Fire Safety: If the building was framed using balloon framing rather than platform framing it may be necessary to add fire blocking if bricks are removed since you may have removed what amounted to fire-blocking in the wall cavities.
* Brick Lined Wall Collapse Warning: Joe and Beth Weisman pointed out at their website [References below] that when removing exterior siding [or interior plaster] one should be careful to watch out for falling bricks. In their renovation one wall dumped quite a few bricks on the ground when it was opened. Puentes points out that in earthquake prone areas, "hidden" brick or other masonry wall lining could fall into an upper room and perhaps through a ceiling into a room below, making this construction method an additional safety concern for houses in earthquake zones. [We don't know if this method has been used in earthquake areas.]
* Brick Walls, Condensation, and Mold: Brick wall lining may increase condensation on the interior of some exterior walls and could be a dampness or mold issue. You may see evidence of this as mold behind pictures that have been hung on exterior walls for some time. You'll also see this in solid-masonry homes.
* Electical Wiring: Running new electrical circuits in exterior walls will encounter the brick lining which may need to be removed in some cases (or run wires behind floor baseboards or in other chases). Carson wondered if the absence of electrical wiring (seen as no outlets nor switches) in the walls of an older building might suggest brick lining.

This information gleaned off the internet and my opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them.

TiredIron

 

[haybudden2]

Thanks for the extended research. Had no idea this
technique was so widely used in North America.
Because this was a StageCoach Stop I assumed it may
have been to repel attacks on the building.
Who knew?

Thanks Tirediron,

Hay2

 

[Monty]

If you are hunting around the structure I noticed what looked like a clothes line pole out back. Be sure to hunt the length of the old clothes line if you can tell where it was. I have found a lot of silver jewelry under old clothes lines. Monty

 

[haybudden2]

appreciate the tip, but clothes lines are a given, I always
hunt them.
The building in the picture has another one hidden behind it.
It was a stage stop early on and help community dances in
it's later years. The potential for some good finds is great.
I just need to get back to it before everyone else does......
all it takes is time.

Hay2

 

[Broken knee]

I think the original poster was referring to the brick lining of the walls more than the Balloon style of framing.....I think this is called "nogging" when bricks or rock are used as an attempt to insulate. It has no structural intent.
http://www.inspectapedia.com/interiors/bricklinerJW2.JPG
http://research.history.org/Coffeehouse/blog/images//attached/nogging2.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4309679857_15ecc74c68_o.jpg

Brick Wall Lining in Older Homes

Brick wall "insulation" or brick nogging may be found in wood framed buildings built up to about 1900. Usually these homes have exterior clapboards and interior plaster walls.

An owner of such a home usually finds out about the brick in the home walls at the first renovation or wiring or plumbing project. But a home inspector and home buyer might also be able to detect brick-lined walls and should be interested in what this construction method might mean to the new owner.

These bricks are not structural, and they were simply mortared in place between wood framed wall studs and rested on the sill plates of each floor. It would be unusual to find brick wall linings in interior walls unless at one time the "interior" wall was at one time a building exterior wall structure.

Brick Nogging was generally not intended to be exposed to view, and served the purpose of blocking wind that blew through older homes constructed without an exterior sheathing - clapboards were nailed directly to the structural frame. Typical wall construction was stud framing, 16" o.c., diagonal wood bracing in walls, clapboard exterior, rough masonry wall filler on all floors and extending into the attic. Interior walls were covered by plaster on wood lath.

Opening walls filled with brick nogging or other masonry will often reveal rough and varying styles of masonry (as it was not intended to be seen) that went in fast. The masons may have used a variety of bricks and rubble. I [DF] suspect that this construction method may have been adopted by builders who had observed the short life and pest infestation problems that followed colonial and later attempts at wall insulation using natural materials like straw and corncobs.

Websters Dictionary gives this definition: "Nogging: (?), n. Rough brick masonry used to fill in the interstices of a wooden frame, in building."
Wordnet Dictionary gives this similar definition: "Noun 1. nogging - rough brick masonry used to fill in the gaps in a wooden frame". "Nogging" is a term also used by some to describe exposed brick lining in timber framed walls in which the brick is left in view on the building exterior for aesthetic reasons.

Because brick (or other masonry) placed in building cavities as a wind barrier and thermal mass source was in that use not intended to be exposed, you can expect to see the workmanship quite rough in appearance and inconsistent from one building area to another (as any and various masonry material at hand might be used) compared with masonry intended to be left exposed to view.
Some Considerations for Homes with Brick Lined Walls - Brick Nogging

* House Age: Brick nogging helps set a possible age for the home. Houses built between 1810 and 1900, or perhaps earlier may have brick-lined walls. I [Friedman] found brick nogging lining the walls of a 1790 house in Poughkeepsie NY. So finding bricks in your house walls is often a clue about when it was built.
* Insulating Value of Brick Wall Lining: Brick has an "R" value estimated at about 0.11", so a brick lined wall has an R-value of something like R1 overall (including the wood siding and interior plaster) - pretty low compared with modern R11-R20 walls. Adding conventional insulation such as fiberglass batts, blown-in fiberglass, or blown-in cellulose or foam (to save heating and cooling costs) are not an option unless walls are stripped from inside or outside first, and bricks removed. In an extensive old house renovation, if the project includes replacing exterior siding or interior wall surfaces, and in homes where accurate historic preservation of original construction materials and details is not a requirement, it is common to remove all of the wall-lining bricks in order to substitute a more effective insulating material. Owners who have taken this step (such as the Weismans) report a significant reduction in home heating costs.
* Weight of Brick-Lined Walls: Alan Carson, (Carson Dunlop Associates, Toronto) estimates that weight would be about 400 lb. per stud cavity per floor. (Clay bricks weigh about 150 lb./cu. ft.). If the structure is damaged by rot or insects, or modified by "remodeling" there is risk that the added weight of bricks in upper floor walls could require additional support. Beware of remodeling on lower floors which includes the removal of bricks in the wall cavities - it may be necessary to add support to be certain that weight of brick lining upper floor walls does not cause a structural problem for the lower floors.
* Brick Wall Liners and Fire Safety: If the building was framed using balloon framing rather than platform framing it may be necessary to add fire blocking if bricks are removed since you may have removed what amounted to fire-blocking in the wall cavities.
* Brick Lined Wall Collapse Warning: Joe and Beth Weisman pointed out at their website [References below] that when removing exterior siding [or interior plaster] one should be careful to watch out for falling bricks. In their renovation one wall dumped quite a few bricks on the ground when it was opened. Puentes points out that in earthquake prone areas, "hidden" brick or other masonry wall lining could fall into an upper room and perhaps through a ceiling into a room below, making this construction method an additional safety concern for houses in earthquake zones. [We don't know if this method has been used in earthquake areas.]
* Brick Walls, Condensation, and Mold: Brick wall lining may increase condensation on the interior of some exterior walls and could be a dampness or mold issue. You may see evidence of this as mold behind pictures that have been hung on exterior walls for some time. You'll also see this in solid-masonry homes.
* Electical Wiring: Running new electrical circuits in exterior walls will encounter the brick lining which may need to be removed in some cases (or run wires behind floor baseboards or in other chases). Carson wondered if the absence of electrical wiring (seen as no outlets nor switches) in the walls of an older building might suggest brick lining.

This information gleaned off the internet and my opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them.

TiredIron

you nailed it man, in the north east they would put a cleat within the 2x4 wall and put a second layer of lath and plaster it also, creating 2 dead air spaces. Broken Knee

 

[oldfireguy]

We have an old military post close by that was built that way. Dates to the early 1850's so that construction made out here too.

 

[haybudden2]

I'm see more and more that this type of early
construction is pretty common in the U.S.

Good hunting....Hay2

 

[Threadless]

Their is one really interesting thing on that building i'd like to get a closer look at if you get a chance. See the open door, look straight up to the metal box thingy on the wall under the soffit. Now look right beside that box..Appears to be a telegraph insulator still on its peg. I blew your picture up to get a better look, but i cant tell exactly what it is, pic got too grainy on me. It would definitly be worth pulling down, if you can get it safely, or at the very least get a close-up pic of it and i can let you know exactly what it is.

 

[DCMatt]

Here is a pic of Lafitte's Blacksmith Shop in the French Quarter of New Orleans (now a piano bar). It is one of the oldest structures in the Mississippi delta. The brick and wood construction was used because the locally made bricks were very poor quality. Wood added strength. Stucco covering kept them from eroding. This was a common practice 200+ years ago, but few examples remain in the harsh environment of the deep south.

DCMatt

 

[haybudden2]

Threadless

I hope this is the portion of the picture you are looking it.
Is it the small white ceramic knob ?
If so there are two, other one is to the left under the eve.

Hay2