Information on a 1595 Santa Margarita supposedly lost in Biscayne Bay ?

[Jolly Mon]

I had never heard of this story before and, frankly, it sounds a bit far fetched.
Supposedly a galleon named Santa Margarita was blown into Biscayne Bay during a hurricane in 1595. The story goes that a number of silver bars were later recovered by a fisherman in the area.
I think it is possible, though unlikely, that a galleon could make it over the reefs and into Biscayne Bay. The stern castle perhaps??
Anyway, the story sounds a little fishy...does anyone have any hard information on possible losses from the 1595 flota??

 

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[Denniss]

There is the rumor of a galleon being lost in Biscayne Bay in the vicinity of Old Cutler and fishermen recovering silver bars. Could it happen? Could parts have washed up into the mangroves? Sure!

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AAAIBAJ&sjid=dYsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6795,54666&hl=en

It's all protected area but the thought has passed my mind about doing a surreptitious survey, paddling a kayak along the shore line

 

[Galleon Hunter]

Pick your poison, the Santa Margarita is a well-known "Ghost Wreck." Several versions of the same story floating around. I put a few in the "Ghost Wreck" chapter of my shipwreck book. Don't waste your time searching for, but the stories are fun to read.

1595. Spanish galleon Santa Margarita carrying between $4,000,000 and $7,000,000 in gold and silver bullion, sank twenty miles southeast of Palm Beach, Florida on July 17. (Note: Various sources place this wreck off Cutler; on the Hillsboro Rocks; off Vero Beach; off Sebastian Inlet; in Biscayne Bay; or on Florida’s west coast depending upon which source you happen to read. They Found Gold written by A. Hyatt Verrill in 1936 states “Several years ago a diver, while working on a broken submarine telegraph cable, located the galleon and found her practically intact.” The diver returned to New York to solicit funds to excavate the old galleon, but before he could return a hurricane altered the sandy bottom and when he returned, he was unable to locate the wreck. Interestingly enough an article published in the Palm Beach Daily News on November 20, 1961 reports the regent Santa Margarita Chapter of the Daughters of the American Colonists was named for “an old Spanish galleon which was wrecked off Palm Beach in 1595.” The article also claims that a cannon recovered from the wreck “now stands on the grounds of the Roscoe Tate Anthony home on South Lake Trail.”
(4,13,44,184,500,528,559,633,639,667,736,779)

1595. Spanish galleon Santa Margharita bound for Spain laden with 6,000,000 pesos in gold bullion and silver coins was lost at the entrance to Biscayne Bay. In the late 1880’s, a man found many silver bars in the mud along the shoreline near Cutler, Florida. They were believed to have originated from a Spanish galleon that sank in 1595, although the wreck has never been located.
Treasure in the Sun states the Santa Margharita was lost north of Cocoa Beach. F.L. Coffman in his book 1001 Lost, Buried or Sunken Treasure is careful to point out that this Santa Margharita should “not be confused with the ones off Palm Beach and Sebastian Inlet.” He relates a story of Ned Pent, a pilot for Miami’s Merritt Island Wrecking Company who stumbled upon a small chest in Biscayne Bay following a storm. The chest contain silver “Mexican Pillar Dollars.” Coffman surmised the coins may have originated from the Santa Margharita. (Note: While this makes for an entertaining treasure hunting story any such shipwreck from 1595 certainly would not have been carrying “Pillar Dollars.” Why? Because the use of the screw press to mint round coins with milled edges didn’t begin in the New World until after 1732. (528,559,752,779)

1597. Spanish galleon Santa Margarita sailing from Santo Domingo to Spain, richly laden with treasure, was driven ashore in the Mona Passage and wrecked near Puerto Rico. Various sources indicate the galleon carried $7,000,000 in gold, while another version states that her cargo consisted of silver bullion and specie worth $6,250,000. According to Treasure Hunting: The Treasure Hunter’s Own Book of Land Caches and Bullion Wrecks by Harold T. Wilkins, a well-known American diver was laying a submarine cable between Santo Domingo and the Bahamas when he accidentally discovered the sunken galleon. He marked the wreck, and, later on, purchased a yacht once sailed by the late Sir Thomas Lipton in the America Cup race. He returned to the site, but became a shipwreck victim himself when his yacht was severely damaged during a hurricane. A passing steamer rescued him and he was forced to leave the area having never recovered the sunken treasure. (Note: This is almost certainly another ghost wreck as I have found no archival evidence whatsoever to support any such claim. The story also shares striking similarities to the galleon Santa Margarita; allegedly lost of West Palm Beach, Florida in 1595. The above account of the “accidental” discovery of the Santa Margarita also appeared in the article “Adventures of Treasure Hunters” published in Popular Mechanics in April 1930.) (4,5,469,500,528,638,757,779)

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Earlier coins minted in the New World were called “cob” coins. The word coming from the Spanish “cabo de barra,” or cut from the bar. Sliced from a roughly square bar of silver, the irregular shaped pieces were heated, struck while hot with a hammer and die with a cross and shield and trimmed to the denominations proper weight.

 

[Salvor6]

In 1992 I met Bob Allison also known as Treasure Bob. He had a treasure museum in the Kingfish restaurant at Johns Pass, Treasure Island, FL. He is on the cover of Treasure Magazine with Capt. Carl Fizmer. Treasure Bob found a silver bar, several eight reale cob coins and emeralds in Biscayne Bay. He said this was at a known site that the marine patrol was watching. Bob got away with it.

 

[GreenHiker]

The Marine Patrol always seemed to show up if you spent any time cruising around in the Legare Anchorage area.
Now 35 years later the area is still marked on the Biscayne park map as "closed".

So it's a special area. But we're not allowed to even look at it?
The HMS Fowey 1744 is there, but probably more, I suspect.

 

[Denniss]

There was a court case between a diver and National Park Service years ago over Legare anchorage. National Park Service won. When one of the various agencies are giving a seminar and explaining how they are there to preserve the shipwrecks and allow the public to view them, I always like to bring up, "what about Legare anchorage". It's always good for a sputtering answer.

http://coast.noaa.gov/data/Document...pp. 1562 (S.D. Fla. 1983).pdf?redirect=301ocm

Gerry Klein, the diver, claimed he found a galleon. There's one small passage in the court documents that could indicate a subterfuge but no one will know. Could there be two ships there?

""In February, 1975, three years before Gerald Klein's discovery, George R. Fischer, an underwater archeologist, prepared a
Preliminary Archeological Assessment of Biscayne National Monument for the National Park Service.

The assessment listed
forty-six locations of historic shipwrecks within the park with specific reference to an 18th century wreck within Legare
Anchorage. This ship was tentatively identified as the Nuestra Senora del Pupolo,a vessel of the 1733 Spanish fleet.
Archeologists have now re-identified it as an 18th century English ship, the Fowey.
Although identification of archeological finds is always provisional and subject to re-evaluation, the parties tend to agree at this time that the abandoned wreck that is the subject of this dispute is, in fact, the Fowey"

 

[ARC]

The Santa Margarita sank in 1622 in a hurricane 40 miles west of Key West.

I personally have played with and held SOME of her gold.

<---- Look at my avatar...
For bigger picture go to my profile album pic.

 

[Jolly Mon]

Thanks for the replies.
Obviously I was not referring to the Atocha's sister ship. There might have been a hundred ships named Santa Margarita during Spain's colonial period.
I can think of several ways silver bars and cobs might make it into Biscayne Bay. Piracy, salvage camps, etc.
I might have to do a little snorkling and fishing in the south bay area when it is a bit rough on the outside. Who knows...I might find a bit of fish holding structure.

 

[ARC]

Thanks for the replies.
Obviously I was not referring to the Atocha's sister ship. There might have been a hundred ships named Santa Margarita during Spain's colonial period.
I can think of several ways silver bars and cobs might make it into Biscayne Bay. Piracy, salvage camps, etc.
I might have to do a little snorkling and fishing in the south bay area when it is a bit rough on the outside. Who knows...I might find a bit of fish holding structure.

Hmmm ?
Hundreds ?
And obviously I am referring to the only one ever seen or heard of... ever.
BUT...
I think this may be where we have crossed swords on this...
I believe we may be talking about the same ship ?
There may be a "rumor" that the "rest" of Santa Margarita lies in Biscayne Bay...

And this is a rumor ?

Um... no snorkeling either... heh

Also... just a tidbit of info on this...

This site was closed off to divers in 1979, after a diver found the wreck of the HMS Fowey. He began salvaging the wreck without any permits and began displaying the artifacts he found in his restaurant. The state got wind of his activities and got a court injunction to stop him. A 4 year legal battle ensued. The State finally won and took control of the site. The diver who lost the court battle made public the location of his discovery and told people that untold riches awaiting any diver who could find the site. "He handed out a printed chart that showed the location of the wreck to any customer who asked for it in at his Homestead Restaurant. " The "gold rush" was on and many people attempted to plunder the site. The state retaliated by closing off the area to divers and prohibiting any attempt to locate the wreck by using glass viewers etc. BTW the diver/restaurant owner was shot to death, in a robbery attempt at his restaurant, on New Years Eve, soon after losing this legal battle.

PS... to date... I think less than 20 million has ever been salvaged from the Margarita... her "pile" awaits...

 

[Jolly Mon]

Hmmm ?
Hundreds ?
And obviously I am referring to the only one ever seen or heard of... ever.
BUT...
I think this may be where we have crossed swords on this...
I believe we may be talking about the same ship ?
There may be a "rumor" that the "rest" of Santa Margarita lies in Biscayne Bay...

And this is a rumor ?

Um... no snorkeling either... )

I don't think we crossed swords and I will stand by my statement that the Spanish may have had 100 ships named Santa Margarita in the 300 plus years of their colonial activity.

The 1622 Margarita is not even the only Margarita found and excavated from the first quarter of the 17th century. Another Santa Margarita wrecked in the Marianas in 1601 and was largely salvaged in the 1990's.

Guess how Margarita Shoal off the Irish coast got its name?

I am not going to argue the point further....Saint Margaret was a popular patron saint and her name may have been incorporated into many ship titles.

Once again, I am very sceptical of the original story, but the idea that there cannot be a 1595 Santa Margarita shipwreck because there was a 1622 Santa Margarita shipwreck is just not true. Every shipwreck tale rests on its own merits.

I think the idea that the remaining part of the 1622 Margarita somehow wound up in Biscayne Bay to be incredibly far fetched. It is hard to imagine, even with the action of the gulf stream, how this could have happened. I find it easy to believe there might be some interesting dive sites in Biscayne Bay, but I seriously doubt they have anything to do with the 1622 Santa Margarita.

Incidentally, I have no interest in the Fowey site or any other area of the bay off limits to diving.

 

[Galleon Hunter]

Very common Spanish vessel name, just like anything containing the word Concepcion...

The 1641 Nuestra Señora de la Pura y Limpia Concepción (better known as the Nuestra Señora de la Concepción), found off Silver Shoals by my friend Burt Webber

1563 La Concepcion lost anywhere between Cape Canaveral and Bermuda.

1571 Santa María de la Limpia Concepcion, Florida

1589 Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion, Florida

1622 Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion. Bermuda

New Hampshire 1813
According to various sources, the wreck is also identified as the Concepcion. Robert Cahill in Finding New England’s Shipwrecks and Treasures indicates that both the Sagunto and Conception “had traveled up the coast from the West Indies to Portsmouth to add dried fish to their cargoes and both had slipped out of port heading for Spain on the night of January 14.” The Sagunto apparently made it past the Isles and put into Newport, Rhode Island, where she rode out the storm…but the Conception disappeared, and it is thought to be this vessel that had crashed into Cedar Island Ledge.)

The Nuestra Señora de la Concepción wrecked off the Marianas Islands in 1638. The Concepción was discovered by William Mather off Saipan’s Agingan Point on March 10, 1988. The wreck was located in 140-250 feet of water.

Those are just a few examples...

 

[ARC]

Ehhh ?

"conception" refers to conception of faith...
And is a name for many places worldwide and such... and also a name for girl(s)...

Concepción was always used in conjunction with other words...
EXCEPT for... the ONE original "Concepción"... using ONLY that exact phrase and word...
Which sank off Hispaniola in 1641... where she sat until Phipps found it in 1687...
and salvaged tons of silver and gold, to repay the English investors...

I have compiled lists of every Spanish Navel and merchant vessel ever built and lost... which is by no means complete... I am sure...

But if you are telling me that there are 2 ships... by the same name... from the same time period... in the same waters...

Mmmm k. ... Good luck.

PS... The Concepción was found again in 78 by Burt Webber who also salvaged the hell out of it.

 

[Jolly Mon]

Ehhh ?

"conception" refers to conception of faith...
And is a name for many places worldwide and such... and also a name for girl(s)...

Concepción was always used in conjunction with other words...
EXCEPT for... the ONE original "Concepción"... using ONLY that exact phrase and word...
Which sank off Hispaniola in 1641... where she sat until Phipps found it in 1687...

PS... The Concepción was found again in 78 by Burt Webber who also salvaged the hell out of it.

As Galleon Hunter has already pointed out, the actual name of Phipp's and Webber's "Concepcion" was Nuestra Senora de la Limpia y Pura Concepcion.

Besides the examples Galleon Hunter has already given, I might mention just a few Bahamas wrecks:

Trinadad 1606
Trinadad 1623

El Rosario 1589
El Rosario 1657

San Pedro 1660
San Pedro 1668

And of course, in regard to El Rosario and San Pedro, you can simply hop across the Bahama Channel and find two shipwrecks of the same name in Florida circa 1733.

But I will leave this to Galleon Hunter. He is the real expert. I am just a dabbler.