Indian War Era Whatsit? (Still Unknown)

[Montana Jim]

I was hunting near a Montana Indian War army post, near (but not in) a fort cemetary (circa 1866ish) on private land, and dug this relic. It weighs about four pounds and is made of drop-forged lead. There is a counter-sunk post through the middle and appears to have been attached to wood from the back? The bolt and nut are not hand forged... any ideas?

 

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[lordmarcovan]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

The shield shape tells me it might've been a grave marker/ornament? I was thinking GAR, but theirs were star-shaped.

These were the sort of thing that were put on a grave but were not the actual tombstone. More to identify the person as a member of some group or fraternal organization.

Just a theory?


Here's a G.A.R. marker:

http://9thmassbattery2.home.comcast.net/SParkerGrave.html


Can you make out any design or inscription on the front of it?

 

[lordmarcovan]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

Oh... I see the "C", now. Duh.

Hmm. I dunno. Perhaps it was to mark off a family plot whose name began with a C, or maybe a Section C in the cemetery?

 

[nahabit]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

If it grave marker that probably beside is a tomb! And can be and a cemetery!

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

No towns nearby that begine with a "C"... and I agree that it is cemetary related, I just don't know how. I'm sure it's not a row or section marker because frankly, the place is fairly small. However, it may simply have been a cemetary boundary marker? The shape is common for that era soldier's grave stones although I have only seen the patern carved, not bolted on.

Lot's of good theories... thanks for your opinions!

 

[nahabit]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

In what years, these markers were approximately used? Whether has sense to search for a cemetery? I advise to take the probe long 1.5 meters and to stick with him the ground for a presence of emptiness. In PM I can explain technology of search more in detail.

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

All good theories... Thanks! I am getting back that way soon and will take another walk through the small and overgrown cemetary to look for more clues. Just to say it again because i think nahabit missed my original post, I was NOT IN the cemetary, I was NEAR the cemetary! I am convinced that it is some form of ornamentation or marker attached to a wooden head stone or used as some type of boundary marker. I am NOT sure what the "C" indicated.... so anyone's guess is as good as mine since it was near an infantry post, not calvary.

 

[dg39]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

Perhaps a Company "C" for a Army Company. Could have been attached to something. In other words simply a area marker of sorts and not particularly for a cemetery? I do agree in it being a marker. Any paint residue of other colors?
DG

 

[rockbuster]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

It has the shape of an Interstate sign. Perhaps it was and old monument for survey.

 

[ramjet2187]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

Maybe it's just a cornermarker for the cemetary itself, thus the 'C'..........

 

[hollowpointred]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

my guess would be an old marker to mark the different sections in the cemetary, you know to help the grave diggers know where to dig. just a guess.

 

[DigEmAll]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

Also resembles the National Park Service markers.

Any national parks around?

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

I actually weighed this thing and it came out to 3 pounds 2 ounces. Again, It's solid lead except for the nut/bolt hardware. Thickness is 1/2 inch - width is 4 1/2 inches - height is 5 inches. I would bet my life it's not a highway marker or national park service marker although the shapes are the same/similar. It's a common federal theme.

It's very possible that the "C" indicates a certain company like a few of you mentioned...

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: Indian War Era Whatsit?

Bump from two years ago... this is the whole reason I came to TreasureNet in the first place...

Anyone know what this thing is?

 

[ivan salis]

deffinantly a union sheild type design-- most indain war era forts had calvary groups serving at them. ""c" for calvary or "company "c" infantry --find out what groups manned / staffed / worked out of the nearby fort. for starters. --- as a possiblegraveyard edge marker*or grave marker item --I'd put her back (but thats just me ---I error to the side of caution)-- the exact bountries of old cemetarys often vary a good bit from the recorded areas in many cases. "buffalo soldiers" or colored troops "c" where often heavyily used out west in the indain wars. too

 

[watercolor]

I like the idea of it being some type of cemetary related marker. . . possibly to indicate an area where people of "Color" were buried.

 

[tulecanyon]

i found this site on cemetary markers.
sons of veterans used a shield like this.

 

[Montana Jim]

deffinantly a union sheild type design-- most indain war era forts had calvary groups serving at them. ""c" for calvary or "company "c" infantry --find out what groups manned / staffed / worked out of the nearby fort. for starters. --- as a possiblegraveyard edge marker*or grave marker item --I'd put her back (butthats just me ---error to the side of caution)-- the exact bountries of old cemetarys often vary a good bit from the recorded areas in many cases.

Thanks Ivan... I'm not putting it back. There were no calvery units posted at this location but many are known to have moved through and camped for a bit. I know the units stationed at this place and it leaves no indication or clue unfortunately. In addition, I don't remember what all I posted above, but the "era" graves were all moved long ago and are currently only marked with remembrance markers and empty holes full of stones. There are some more modern graves there, but the original military and subsequent modern boundaries are still clearly marked. This was found far enough from either and on a wagon road so I cannot say for sure it's a cemetery piece or not.

I like the idea of it being some type of cemetery related marker. . . possibly to indicate an area where people of "Color" were buried.

Interesting... "C" for colored? Maybe... I thought they were referred to as negro troops. Anyway - funny you should say this because the area was predominantly stationed with colored troops... Buffalo Soldiers.

i found this site on cemetary markers.
sons of veterans used a shield like this.

No kidding? I wonder if pics are available to support this theory. What do you think the "C" stands for?

 

[ivan salis]

well if the old bodies originally buried there were relocated / moved long ago ( then theres no need to replace ithe marker of course as the original graveyard it served as a marker for is gone) -- it is in my veiw most likely a old boundry marker --- telling the boundry area of where the buffalo soldiers or united states "colored" troops were buried at or a grave marker of sorts --- look at the civil war terms for black units (USCT) -- black troopers were heavily used out west during the indain war era -- but even after the civil war made men equal -- the white and colored troops were buried apart from one another * in split graveyards --- the sheild type device is a common union type symbol -- with "C" standing for "colored" most likely --since you say by and large a lot of buffalo soldiers worked out of the nearby by fort, I say theres a good chance that what you have a marker for the colored site--- the colored grave sites would have been a bit away from the white grave sites and are often poorly recorded and in some cases not recorded at all in some cases due to old fashioned racism.

as to it location of find -- a good bit from the graveyard in wagon road area --maybe as the bodies were being removed and transported to their new location --- it fell off a old rotten wooden head stone marker---it look as thought it would bolt to one nicely . Ivan

the "civil war sheild" design was to be used onstone military tombstones as per order feb 8. 1873 -- it was to cut in relief with name -rank and info put inside the sheild -- this might have been a modified type used with a wooden head stone. with the info carved into the wood. -- just a guess

 

[tulecanyon]

duh, forgot the link

http://www.joycetice.com/flaghold/flaghold.htm#Do NOT buy or

check: sons of veterans