Im going to build an LRL (seriously)

[LM]

I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Lets set aside all past arguments and approach this from a simpler, more definitive standpoint.

Winter is getting awfully long and cold here in Chicago and I need a good project. Everyone knows I'm in the camp of people who feel that LRL proponents have totally, 100% failed to prove their devices function in any meaningful way... but, I'm a curious sort of person and since I'm relatively handy with soldering goo and making stuff, I've decided to explore this as far as it can go and build an LRL. This is sincere and not a setup.

First, we need to compile a parts list, with some sort of description of what these parts do as it pertains to LRL functionality.

I'd ask the LRL enthusiasts to give me a starting point. Once we've established a decent parts list, I will order them, build the whole thing to the specifications provided by LRL cognoscenti, test it myself, furnish it to a neutral 3rd part to test, then give it to a LRL user from this board to test him or herself.

So, parts...
What parts am I going to need and what do those parts accomplish?

I'd ask everyone on both sides to refrain from broader LRL "debate" and simply provide a list of parts and what those parts accomplish.

 

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[fenixdigger]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Carl's got the info you need. First thing is to learn to "swing a rod". This is like sweeping a glass of water filled to the top, around in front of you without spilling any. Use the hanger rods to practice, so when you get to the LRL you won't waste time learning the basics. You have to learn not to "lead" the rod. If you tilt your hand, the rod will travel past any target.

 

[woof!]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

As Fenix points out, you'll need "rods". And as I've pointed out in a post in a different thread, bent coathangers may work but they're not optimum. You can buy dowsing rods cheap enough it isn't worth your trouble to build your own unless you have plenty of time on your hands or you just want the fun of do-it-yourself. I've addressed that subject in the Dowsing forum:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,372469.0.html

Regarding the electronic stuff, in commercially produced LRL's there's wide variety, all the way from no actual electronics at all, to microprocessor equipped units. To the extent that it can be said that there is any industry pattern to the electronics, the closest I think you'd get is having an audio frequency oscillator either as part of the hand-held system, or as a separate "transmitter". And the most common way to build an audio frequency oscillator is to build it around a 555 timer chip.

The Texas Inst. TLC555 and virtually identical National LMC555 timers are big improvements over the original bipolar NE555 which I would not recommend to anyone, it has too many bad habits. The data sheets (they're online, just follow the Google) include app notes for brewing your own. In order to get good frequency range coverage I recommend using an audio taper potentiometer.

Something which to my knowledge hasn't been done before, would be to connect a 100 ohm speaker in series with a 470 ohm resistor between the discharge terminal and the positive power supply (likely a 9 volt rectangular battery). That way you can hear what frequency you're dialing in, you don't have to wonder what the oscillator is doing.

The oscillator can be attached to an L-rod, simply carried in your pocket, its output electrically connected to the L-rod(s) if you prefer, or placed on the ground or electrically connected to the ground, which ever you think seems most promising. You could experiment with different such arrangements if you like.

If you believe that the purpose of the oscillator is to transmit a local E-field, connecting the output to your car body and running the negative connection to an electrical earth ground (a ground rod if necessary) is a way to do it. Cars can make excellent low frequency E-field antennas (as I have described in some detail in another post in this forum).

You wanted to know what the elements in the system "do". Well, the dowsing rods do what dowsing rods do (you can see them point if they point, or cross if you're using two of 'em, and either way you can feel them rotate if you're dowsing eyes closed or blindfolded). The oscillator oscillates (you can hear it in the speaker).

This isn't the only way to build an LRL, for sure! as I have already explained. Among commercial LRL's there is a recognizeable mainstream in the advertising, but no real mainstream in terms of the electronics (if any) actually physically present in the product. However if you want to do something that is more representative of past LRL's than, say, simply pretending the electronics to be there, what I have described is probably as good as it gets.

--Toto

 

[Carl-NC]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

LS, are you going to build an all-electronic LRL (no swivel needed!), or a Grandma's whirly-gig LRL? If the all-electronic, search the Geotech forums for "pistol detector," the guys there had designed a Mineoro-style directional noise maker that is pretty convincing.

Assuming the whirly-gig LRL, the numero uno, absolute must-have-or-you're-dead-in-the-water feature is.... a freely swiveling pointer.

Let's see how many folks disagree with this.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Hey LSMorgan….It would be cheaper to buy a Walkie-Talkie to do your testing…No need to follow plans that may not work or even be real. I have a Uniden GMR325-2 that works just fine. Just put it on on channel 7 (462.125MHz). Place it on the floor with a gold target 10 feet away. Have someone hold the send button down and you walk between the talkie and the gold..Pretty simple to do…Works the best with 17 inch rods...art

 

[etowah]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Lets set aside all past arguments and approach this from a simpler, more definitive standpoint.

Winter is getting awfully long and cold here in Chicago and I need a good project. Everyone knows I'm in the camp of people who feel that LRL proponents have totally, 100% failed to prove their devices function in any meaningful way... but, I'm a curious sort of person and since I'm relatively handy with soldering goo and making stuff, I've decided to explore this as far as it can go and build an LRL. This is sincere and not a setup.

First, we need to compile a parts list, with some sort of description of what these parts do as it pertains to LRL functionality.

I'd ask the LRL enthusiasts to give me a starting point. Once we've established a decent parts list, I will order them, build the whole thing to the specifications provided by LRL cognoscenti, test it myself, furnish it to a neutral 3rd part to test, then give it to a LRL user from this board to test him or herself.

So, parts...
What parts am I going to need and what do those parts accomplish?

I'd ask everyone on both sides to refrain from broader LRL "debate" and simply provide a list of parts and what those parts accomplish.

Build a PD like Morgan's, he claims his works. If you build a LRL that works
50% or better in field tests and will sell them at a reasonal price, myself and many others
will want to buy one.

 

[hung]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Build a PD like Morgan's, he claims his works. If you build a LRL that works
50% or better in field tests and will sell them at a reasonal price, myself and many others
will want to buy one.

Carl is speaking half truths again.
The PD project in his forum was a disaster for the resident 'skepthics' who claim to be 'electronic engineers'.
Except for a few who seem to have been successful, including Morgan, those 'skepthics' failed miserably in cloning the device. This due to several reasons as lack of understanding about the concept, wrong schematics, incorrect tunings and frequencies.
It's a difficult project that requires critical information about the coils and alignment.
The PD was a prototype to later Mineoro models. It works but has less range than the current Mineoros.

Despite of that, if built correctly, it detects deeper than any whites crap detector that he will ever build.

 

[Saturna]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Except that those guys went out and proved those detractors wrong.





... something you guys have yet to do.

 

[EE THr]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Mike---

In making an LRL, as the topic indicates, the builder should know the correct principles, as you mentioned.

So just let me make sure I understand this particular LRL principle correctly.

On a swivel type LRL, does the machine, all by itself, move the pointing device, or does it require that the operator actually move it? And if neither of the above, then what really moves it?

This is very important in building one according to your correct principles, so a full description of exactly how this is supposed to function is necessary to ensure that the final product is a true LRL. Therefore I'm sure that you will want to help out with this aspect.

Thank you in advance.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

~EE THr~

On a swivel type LRL, does the machine, all by itself, move the pointing device, or does it require that the operator actually move it? And if neither of the above, then what really moves it?

Ask and answered..Now you ask the same question to someone else…are just trying to waste our time or you not believing what you saw?..Art
http://rangertell.com/no2.htm

 

[fenixdigger]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

EE;

I hunt with a guy that lets the unit "hunt" on it's own. When it finds a target, he will then work the unit with short sweeps.

 

[EE THr]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Art---

Ha! The guy has to shake it to get it to move, and he is able to tilt it any way he wants!

That has got to be the corniest video, besides maybe yours, on the Web!






So, I'll take that as a "No, the machine won't point on it's own."

Thank you!

 

[EE THr]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Mike---

That's a lame, non-answer.









And I will take that also, as a "No, the machine won't point on it's own."

 

[EE THr]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

fenixdigger---

OK, but so do dowsers.

To eliminate subconscious hand movements, it's got to be clamped down (from start to finish) during the test.

 

[Saturna]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Mike---

That's a lame, non-answer.

At least he's consistent.

 

[EE THr]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Saturna---

Well, if they would just say, "Yeah, the swivel pointer LRLs are dowsing devices," then I wouldn't argue with them about that. What doesn't make sense to me is why they want to insist that they are standard electronics devices. Unless they have something to gain, like paychecks from the makers or something.

Or is it just that they don't want to feel like they were made fools of?

But if these user / proponents were really successful in dowsing with them, why don't they just do that, and not worry about what other people think? Why do they feel they must convince others that these devices are worth the large amounts of money charged?

At any rate, their case for them being standard electronics driven, is hopeless, as follows---

1. There is no standard electronics explanation for the devices ever working.
2. The swivel pointer does not move by the initiative of the devices.
3. The devices cannot pass a double blind test.
4. Their only rebuttal is fictional mumbo-jumbo and insults.
5. They refuse to answer the most significant questions, at all.

What else can be said, besides "Somthin' just ain't right with these things"?

There is only one reason that people would add all the pseudo-electronics components to these, and that is to be able to hype them up, and thus charge incredibly large amounts of money. They have to hype them up, because dowsers can do just as well with their own, inexpensive, welding rod(s).

 

[fenixdigger]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

EE;

There are very few things I am going to go to the 100% level on and these LRLs are not one of them. I've said before, who knows what is truly going on? We have theorys that make sense due to how things go in the field, but we could be off.

We take consistent results and apply current vocabulary to describe it.

Most of us that have a working situation with our LRL, have an idea ,but really don't care as long as it works.

Now think of this. IF I had a high % LRL, I would spend time here directing people AWAY from the working model. A little food for thought.

 

[etowah]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Lets set aside all past arguments and approach this from a simpler, more definitive standpoint.

Winter is getting awfully long and cold here in Chicago and I need a good project. Everyone knows I'm in the camp of people who feel that LRL proponents have totally, 100% failed to prove their devices function in any meaningful way... but, I'm a curious sort of person and since I'm relatively handy with soldering goo and making stuff, I've decided to explore this as far as it can go and build an LRL. This is sincere and not a setup.

First, we need to compile a parts list, with some sort of description of what these parts do as it pertains to LRL functionality.

I'd ask the LRL enthusiasts to give me a starting point. Once we've established a decent parts list, I will order them, build the whole thing to the specifications provided by LRL cognoscenti, test it myself, furnish it to a neutral 3rd part to test, then give it to a LRL user from this board to test him or herself.

So, parts...
What parts am I going to need and what do those parts accomplish?

I'd ask everyone on both sides to refrain from broader LRL "debate" and simply provide a list of parts and what those parts accomplish.

You said you were going to build a LRL, are you all talk? Build a
PD where there is no dowsing involved. Can you, will you, lets see how smart
you really are?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

~EE THr~

1....There is no standard electronics explanation for the devices ever working.
2. The swivel pointer does not move by the initiative of the devices.
3. The devices cannot pass a double blind test.
4. Their only rebuttal is fictional mumbo-jumbo and insults.
5. They refuse to answer the most significant questions, at all.

Just so the skeptics don’t get more confused..I am talking about Treasure Hunting Devices.

1.. False..There are to may different designs to be explained.
2..False..The swivel because they have made contact with the material they are programmed to locate.
3.. False…The do not have to pass a double blind…The only people I know of that are required to use Double Blind testing is the Drug Company…there is no reason to think that our devices are no safe.
4..False..We leave that job to the Skeptics
5..False…The most significant question on this board is..Please tell us where the proof that our treasure hunting devices are fraudulent and do not work..The word of the Skeptics is not acceptable proof..


8260 LRL and MFD users will go into the field and enjoy their hobby…
Soon to be 8000 (a lot sooner than expected) then 15,000 and then even more
And Millions of Dowsers will also be in the field



2.

 

[TabWhisperer]

Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)

Try a new innovative design. Counterbalance the antenna.