Iberian olive jar...

[southern maine diver]

Hey everyone...

Here are the photos of the Iberian olive jar/Spanish storage jar I found up here on the border of NH & Maine. It was down in about 55 feet of water lying up against a granite mooring block. It was covered mostly with sand/mud and only a small portion was visible. I dug it out and was very surprised to find an intact piece.

I see some decorations on it... one looks like a palm tree with some clouds overhead. Anyway, I only had about 4-5 feet of visibility and a quick look around indicated nothing else. I brought the jar up and wrote down the GPS numbers. I've been back twice, but the visibility and current is pretty bad.

I guess my question is this... could this be an isolated find? Probably not something that a colonial would purposely discard, but accidentally? Or is it more probably an indication of a nearby wreck? The location is near where the area was first settled in the early 1600's, but the water here (about 7 miles inland) doesn't get too rough. Maybe a ship sank while at anchor up here in an early hurricane?

Anyway, from the books I've seen this piece seems to fit in the 1680 - 1720 time period. Indians were still killing colonial settlers in this area during this time frame and I am excited to have made such a find. This is why I was looking into a Hummingbird 997, to see what might be on the bottom here. I have a drop video, but like I said, the visibility is pretty bad. The current really moves through here as well. Maybe this thing rolled around the bottom for a while and then came to rest up against the mooring block. Well, it had to come from somewhere.

Any thoughts?

Wayne

 

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[southern maine diver]

Here is another shot of it from a different angle...

 

[SEAHUNTER]

Congratulations !!!!

I would love to find one of those. What a great conversation piece for a collection.

Seahunter

 

[divedigger]

very nice,good for you! That thing could have come from anywhere,toss a bottle overboard and see how for it travels before it sinks,you might be surprised,but don't quit looking

 

[Donovan]

You might want to consider an earlier time slot for your find. O'jars the same as yours have been found on 1618,1621 and 1622 sites. If there was a settlement near by at that time, then the jar was most likely a loss from that site. Jars like this can roll around and get redeposited with any change in weather or current. I have seen 17th century bottles rolling across the bottom in only a medium current.
The green glaze commonly covered the entire jar on the outside and at least the inside of the lip. Often there was a resin coating on the inside. The clay that was used to create the jars was not perfect, so the jars sweat a lot. That is a good thing if you are trying to cool the liquid contained on the inside of the jar.
If the jar has indeed been rolling around on the river bed then the glaze has been worn away to the almost bare clay substrate.
I was in the Atocha train station in Madrid, ( Right across the street was the Atocha bar and Atocha Taxi stand. Atocha was the patron saint of travelers. ) the ticket taker had a small olive jar in a metal stand on the floor next to him. On a small rack on the stand was a plastic bag with a sandwich in it. The olive jar was sweating like crazy and keeping the sandwich cool. He didn't need a refrigerator and I'm sure that the Spaniards in the 17 th century did the same thing or something similar to keep their lunch cool.
Mitch Marken did a fine book on olive jars. There is also the classic paper by the late Dr. John Goggin that set the standards by which all olive jars are dated and graded.
Splash,
Donovan

 

[Chagy]

Here are some jars recovered from the 1724 Guadalupe, 1724 Tolosa and 1641 Concepcion

 

[SimonLakeSub]

Great find Wayne!!!!! I would agree with your date of 1680-1720. As i own one very similar to yours...These Jars turn up in the strangest places, A few years back, I spotted one at a Bottle show. I pressed the seller for more information his reply to me was that he perchased it from a house sale. And that he spotted the Jar in the garage in a corner in a box, wrapped in old newspaper. Turns out a good diver friend of mine paid him $100 dollars for it ,, which i considered a good price at that time. My own theory is that it was used around the house for years. Then sometime around the late 1800s - 1920s it outlived its usefullness ( more likely used as a container for booze ) and was tossed from the dock, or from a small boat. This happens many times with very old bottles...Also privy diggers digging a 1900 dump, find on occasion an 18th century bottle ... I always say if these bottles and artifacts could only talk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards Simon

 

[southern maine diver]

Hey Pepper... Donovan... Chagy...

Thank you all for taking a look at this olive jar. Thank you for your time and input on how I might go about further investigating this find.

Chagy, those photos of other olive/storage jar were fantastic! I feel like I really lucked out finding this one. I'm really proud of it. When I brought it up, I knew what I had and I showed it to another diver and his comment was, "I can buy something like that at Pier One." Obviously, he didn't know what he was talking about. Funny thing is, he was the diver who had inspected that same mooring the year before!!

I always keep my eyes open when I'm working.

Donovan, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you suggesting that what I see or think is decorations" may just be what remains after rolling around on the bottom for so long? I don't know, but that one "decoration" sure looks like a palm tree with some clouds overhead... Were some olive/storage jars decorated? Sure looks like it to me, but I am not very experienced in these artifacts. I did read Markham's book and that enabled me to narrow down the time frame. So, whether it came from an early colonial shipwreck or it was an isolated find, I'm really happy with it. Just to find something... hold something that hasn't seen the light of day for more than 300 years

Priceless...

Thank you all and I look forward to sharing other finds with you. If I ever get a chance to travel around a little, maybe I'll get a chance to run into to some of you professionals. It would be an honor..

Thanks again,

Wayne
(I don't know what it's like to dive in warm water anymore!! )

 

[southern maine diver]

Hey Simonlake...

Thanks for taking a minute to post a response to my find. This is on my "top shelf" of things I've found underwater for sure. I brought this one to the New England Bottle Show last year and it drew numerous comments. I had someone interested in buying it too, but I wouldn't know what the value of something like this would be.

I called the University of NH to see if anyone would be interested in it for display in a museum, but no one ever got back to me. Too bad... their loss. I found a nice display case and now it has a permanent home in my house.

The last time I flew into Tampa I stopped in at the little Mel Fisher museum at the airport and saw one just like this (except for the decorations) that was found on the Atocha. They wanted BIG money for it because it came off the wreck. I told the guy that I found one just like that in southern Maine and he kinda laughed me off...

Oh well. I know where and when it was found and I will be going back as soon as I can get back into the water.

Have a great day and thanks for the info,

Wayne

 

[southern maine diver]

Hi Cornelius...

To tell you the truth... no, that thought hadn't even crossed my mind. Kind of throws a whole new light on it, I guess. Do you ( does anyone for that matter) know of any storage jars with similar decorations? I wonder if I could E-mail a few photos to Markham or seek his input. I don't know if he would have the time or if he would even entertain the thoughts of such a novice as myself, but it would be great to get an expert's input on this.

Thanks for bringing that up. That's one of the reasons I enjoy this forum. I wish I hadn't joined you guys so late in my career.

Wayne

 

[katertot77]

Awesome Find

Hi! Sad that UNH didn't respond, but I'm sure that Strawbery Banke would love to display that and they have a keen interest in archaeology

Hey Simonlake...

Thanks for taking a minute to post a response to my find. This is on my "top shelf" of things I've found underwater for sure. I brought this one to the New England Bottle Show last year and it drew numerous comments. I had someone interested in buying it too, but I wouldn't know what the value of something like this would be.

I called the University of NH to see if anyone would be interested in it for display in a museum, but no one ever got back to me. Too bad... their loss. I found a nice display case and now it has a permanent home in my house.

The last time I flew into Tampa I stopped in at the little Mel Fisher museum at the airport and saw one just like this (except for the decorations) that was found on the Atocha. They wanted BIG money for it because it came off the wreck. I told the guy that I found one just like that in southern Maine and he kinda laughed me off...

Oh well. I know where and when it was found and I will be going back as soon as I can get back into the water.

Have a great day and thanks for the info,

Wayne

 

[PhipsFolly]

Look at the date of the post Katertot... old post

 

[Salvor6]

Southern Maine diver has not posted anything since Jan. 2015.