I Need Some Real Help, The Silver Kind

[Irregular]

At the Valley Ranger's gracious invitation, I accompanied him to a SE Virginia location with colonial-era potential. I found some small brass and pewter items yet to be identified, and believe I've ID'd the attached as a "pillars and waves" cob, minted at the Potosi, Bolivia mint in the 1690s, possibly 1699.

I have a couple of questions for the sages and specialists here- in the area of the denomination above the SV and between the pillars there appears what might be a tall, narrow elongated "1", barely discernible in the last image. I haven't seen a similar mark elsewhere (normally somewhat squat and uniform in dimension), perhaps a trick of the light? At present I'm left with the impression of this being a single real.

Also, if I have the cob's orientation correct, where what appears to be an "S" above the cross, is that normally also the location for a mark of denomination?

Much thanks in advance for any advice/input!

 

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[park pirate]

Looks like a cob but I'm know expert on cobs someone on the fourm will know...

 

[Valley Ranger]

Great find Doug! I'm sure some folks will chime in.

 

[Irregular]

Thanks for the encouragement, fellows. I look forward to hearing from those who live in the real world.

Yes Rick, that was a great find; thanks be unto God who gives us all good things, and to you for the invite.

 

[Valley Ranger]

Doug - you might send a PM to Bill D. He's quite familiar with these coins, I believe.

 

[Steve in PA]

Congrats on the cob. I would post it on the T-net cob forum if you haven't already.

 

[testing123]

Nice cob! Not able to help you out, but I appreciate your nice old silver coin!

 

[Mackaydon]

Use weight to determine the coin's denomination.
27 grams would equate to an 8R coins.
Use the proportionate maximum weight for the various denominations: 1/2, 1,2,4 and 8R.
Don......

 

[StormSurge]

I was waiting to see if Mackaydon chimed in. He's the man you want to ask about Spanish silver. His knowledge is not limited to coins.

 

[Mackaydon]

Storm Surge, thanks for the kind words.
To these eyes, the date appears to be either a '93' or a '95'.
The denomination would be found above the SVL, between the mint mark on the left and the assayer's initial on the right.
The SVL is part of PLUS ULTRA I(more beyond); the Spanish demonstrating their control and ownership beyond the two pillars of Hercules; i.e. the New World.
Don.......

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Wow! what a great find! Thank you for sharing.

 

[Irregular]

Thanks to all(!) for the interest, advice and insight.

Mackaydon, the weight factor certainly makes sense and something I hadn't considered, nor had I come across appropriate weights. This cob weighs in at 3.2 grams, well over the half real and something just under one real if my math is correct. I'm assuming it is a denomination of one, and I don't think the "1" that I believe I'm seeing can be captured in an image but it would resemble somewhat this example, with what I interpret as a slight rightward lean:



That is what I was trying to imply as to it being more elongated than squatty. I did some further cleaning to the coin and include some date images here:





Also, above the cross on the obverse- is this an "S"? Regardless of what character it may be, can you tell might it indicate?



Mackaydon, your input is very much appreciated. You just can't buy that kind of "on-site" insight and knowledge!

Thanks again to all for the kudos and help!

 

[treblehunter]

Very cool stuff, great find.

 

[DizzyDigger]

Irregular..what an awesome find!

Saved one of your pics, and reprocessed it a bit in order
to make any markings stand out better. Hope it's of some
help in ID'ing the cob.

BTW, were you holding a separate lens in front of the camera lens
to take the pic?



My area wasn't even settled 'til the 1860's, so no chance of
ever finding anything that old here.

 

[screwynewy]

Congrats on a great find. These don't show up very often and are special when they do. I just dug my first cob last weekedend - its posted just a little further down the page. You should check out the link that I attached to my thread about how cobs are made. The author of the article is very knowledgable about cobs and early spanish coins.

 

[g-olden years]

Congrats! You guys must've really enjoyed that hunt, despite cold weather!

Amazing what none of us realized might be right under our feet when we played outside as kids, lol. Andi

 

[Ahab8]

Great find! Looks very similar to this 1664 Potosi mint that I found. To find a hammered coin is very special indeed. No two are exactly alike and they were made by the force of a man....cool stuff

 

[Valley Ranger]

Thanks to all(!) for the interest, advice and insight.

Mackaydon, the weight factor certainly makes sense and something I hadn't considered, nor had I come across appropriate weights. This cob weighs in at 3.2 grams, well over the half real and something just under one real if my math is correct. I'm assuming it is a denomination of one, and I don't think the "1" that I believe I'm seeing can be captured in an image but it would resemble somewhat this example, with what I interpret as a slight rightward lean:

View attachment 1114889

That is what I was trying to imply as to it being more elongated than squatty. I did some further cleaning to the coin and include some date images here:

View attachment 1114890

View attachment 1114891

Also, above the cross on the obverse- is this an "S"? Regardless of what character it may be, can you tell might it indicate?

View attachment 1114892

Mackaydon, your input is very much appreciated. You just can't buy that kind of "on-site" insight and knowledge!

Thanks again to all for the kudos and help!

Looks like you're getting some good feedback Doug. Looks nice!

 

[Mackaydon]

Irregular,
If you want a more precise weight to determine the denomination of your coin, start with 27.468 grams for an 8R; or 3.4335 for a 1R. Your coin's weight corresponds to a 1R.
Don.

 

[Irregular]

Thanks again to all here. Rather than create a bunch of individual replies-

DizzyDigger- that was a good call on your part, I was using my little Canon pocket camera shooting through a 10X loupe. Thank you for the enhanced image also! My virgin eyes have a way to go before I can decipher these near-gone numbers; the jury remains out on the year of mint. To me the "leg" of the number looks nearly identical to the 9 beside it and that I figured to be my greatest clue. Mackaydon created needed doubt in my mind for it doesn't necessarily look like a finished off 9 and I might be detecting a 5 as he suggested as a possibility.

One last thing DizzyDigger- don't say there's no chance of anything that old in your area! That's not a chastisement, but rather encouragement to "keep hope alive". While I'm not well-versed in the history of the Northwest, would there not have been early explorers and adventurers with whom such silver might have been toted? Thanks again for the reply and working with that image.

screwynewy, thanks for the link I found in your post. I had actually stumbled across that web site in doing some searching, but hadn't seen that page. Your cob is your fourth 17th C. coin? You are on some kind of tear, congrats and keep it up!

g-oldenyears, it was cold but a great time, and always nice to walk historic ground for the first time. Although I found this with a TDI, your Tracker IV would've found this at a mere five inches deep. I have a Tracker IV in my arsenal also, a fun machine.

Ahab8, thanks for the images of your 1664, that's awesome. You have an evident lion with the cross, mine requires a lot more imagination. Your comments on the hammered nature of the coin are poignant and something I hadn't given enough thought to.

Mackaydon, thanks again for your input and for these specific weights, they're "keepers" and duly not(at)ed.

Valley Ranger, thanks for generously making this possible; I wouldn't have found it otherwise. Methinks there must be some precious metal awaiting you in those fields as a reward.