HydroForce250 Nozzle and Keene Sluice Box

[maverick41950]

First off, I am a proby here and this seems to be a fine forum. My name is Bryan, AKA Maverick41950 from the Dallas, NC area.
I have a Keene 12"X48" rig and I am using a HydroForce250 nozzle feeding the header which can be used on a pile of dirt or underwater equally well. I went through the "shoveling dirt" deal at Lucky Strike CG and gold mine and of course it is easy to find gold in salted dirt. Done with that for sure.
Now that I have the HF250, I have been working numerous creeks and branches and finding basically zilch. Just specks and very small specks at that. Am working spillovers, inside turns, around and under rocks large and small. Rasseled a few water snakes along the way and I hate that with a passion, especially the ones that drip out of trees and hit me or land right beside me.
The creeks I am working are a little outside of the gold belt in the Marion, Morganton area of NC but I am not far from Vein Mountain which is where Lucky Strike and Thermal City is located.
I am hitting private land streams and creeks, with owners permission, and most of this has never been worked before. I am not working underwater as I do not have diving equipment but I am getting 3' or so in most areas and most of the time I am hitting bedrock by then. Have even went so far as to "bait" a hole with 4-5 pickers to be sure that my rig is not flushing out and I find them every time.
I am panning concentrates, then rerunning the cons through a Desert Fox Spiral Wheel----Nothing but those few specks.
What am I doing wrong or am I just working dead areas? This deal just ain't gonna whup me.

Any and all suggestions will be most appreciated.
Thanks, Bryan

 

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[Klondikeike]

Hey Maverick... !...WELCOME TO PROSPECTING......and the frustration that goes with it...!

Klondike here...

I know all to well how frustrating it can be when first starting out...as I cut my teeth in the deserts of So California nearly 40 years ago...However, your post summons from me more questions than answers...

For instance... ... I am not familiar with keene equipment since I do not use off the shelf equipment...But,...what is your angle of drop on the box...or is it even adjustable...?..What is the spacing between the riffles....? I have found abut a 5 to 6 inch spacing works better than the usual 3 or 4 made by Keene and others...

Are your riffles packing up...? What type of recovery material do you have as an underlayment...(indoor/out door carpet... miners moss...Keene super matting...ribbed carpet...gold hog matting..juist what are you using)....? Using expanded metal..(Hopefully not the stuff the equipment comes with..get some real expanded metal)...? I highly recoment Gold Gog matting...using the UR matting for extremely fine gold recovery...

AND FINALLY..... How much research have you done to locate good paying creeks and streams to test...and from what sources..? And when you found what you think is a good one..have you visited them at high water times, during heavy storms..taken video or still pictures, then come back at low water times and apply the pictures information where to dig by the obvious eddy currents ONLY seen at high water....You'll be surprised about the difference between low and high water currents...somes on opposites sides of the creek... If you 're catching a very few fines..and yet all your seeded pickers are recovered... and that is all you ever get....YOU'RE NOT WHERE THE GOLD IS......its that simple....unless some of the things I pointed out in my questions above may need to be adressed..and you're blowing out the fines, except for a few straglers...since in most cases, you should recover significant amount of more of fines to the few pickers you'll find... and you haven't found any pickers...yet...

Gold does NOT usually cover the bottom of the creek from bank to bank,... in most cases.. usually placer gold is found in layers and streaks on or slightly above all bedrock and false bedrocks...but it doesn't naturally coat the entire bottom with gold...You may be in a great gold bearing creek, but without the ability to read the creek at low water times as to what exactly is happing at high water times, and apply it to the low water times..any gold you find, will be by accident and accident only...

Keep at it.. be persistant... keep learning and one day.. you'll be surprised how well you'll read a creek at low water level and the large amount of gold you just found...keep at it.. it will come to you..some day..some time in the future...Even though I have a Masters Degree in business, ...prospecting for gold was the MOST costly education I have ever had...and the continuation courses are also very expensive...lol

Good luck to ya...


Klondike...

 

[maverick41950]

Hey Maverick... !...WELCOME TO PROSPECTING......and the frustration that goes with it...!

Klondike here... Thanks Klondike for the reply. I am going to try and put my answers in your reply. Hope this works.

I know all to well how frustrating it can be when first starting out...as I cut my teeth in the deserts of So California nearly 40 years ago...However, your post summons from me more questions than answers...

For instance... ... I am not familiar with keene equipment since I do not use off the shelf equipment...But,...what is your angle of drop on the box...or is it even adjustable...?..What is the spacing between the riffles....? I have found abut a 5 to 6 inch spacing works better than the usual 3 or 4 made by Keene and others...I have experimented with the drop from 1" to 4". 1" does not clear out the rocks much at all and 3" seems to work best. Spacing is 3-4.

Are your riffles packing up...? What type of recovery material do you have as an underlayment...(indoor/out door carpet... miners moss...Keene super matting...ribbed carpet...gold hog matting..juist what are you using)....? Using expanded metal..(Hopefully not the stuff the equipment comes with..get some real expanded metal)...? I highly recoment Gold Gog matting...using the UR matting for extremely fine gold recovery...I am using 24" of deep V matting at the header end and the factory green carpet the last 24". Using expanded metal that came with it. Riffles do pack up if not enough drop on the box.

AND FINALLY..... How much research have you done to locate good paying creeks and streams to test...and from what sources..? And when you found what you think is a good one..have you visited them at high water times, during heavy storms..taken video or still pictures, then come back at low water times and apply the pictures information where to dig by the obvious eddy currents ONLY seen at high water....You'll be surprised about the difference between low and high water currents...somes on opposites sides of the creek... If you 're catching a very few fines..and yet all your seeded pickers are recovered... and that is all you ever get....YOU'RE NOT WHERE THE GOLD IS......its that simple....unless some of the things I pointed out in my questions above may need to be adressed..and you're blowing out the fines, except for a few straglers...since in most cases, you should recover significant amount of more of fines to the few pickers you'll find... and you haven't found any pickers...yet... I have not studied the creeks I am working at unusually high water but I will make a point to do that. With the knowledge that I have (and I only have enough knowledge to be dangerous) , I just may be working the wrong areas of the creeks. I do have a serious aversion to "low shoulders" and these creeks are seriously in Copperhead and Rattler country. I have a partner that works with me and the other is always watching while the other one is dredging. I enjoy this a lot and I am determined to further educate myself on finding this elusive Gold stuff.
There are places I can go in the general area to pay and use my equipment but everything in those areas is salted. I want to find it on my own and know for sure that it wasn't baited there.
Thank you for your response and I hope my answers to you are sufficient. If not, let me know and I will try my best to give good answers.
Bryan

Gold does NOT usually cover the bottom of the creek from bank to bank,... in most cases.. usually placer gold is found in layers and streaks on or slightly above all bedrock and false bedrocks...but it doesn't naturally coat the entire bottom with gold...You may be in a great gold bearing creek, but without the ability to read the creek at low water times as to what exactly is happing at high water times, and apply it to the low water times..any gold you find, will be by accident and accident only...

Keep at it.. be persistant... keep learning and one day.. you'll be surprised how well you'll read a creek at low water level and the large amount of gold you just found...keep at it.. it will come to you..some day..some time in the future...Even though I have a Masters Degree in business, ...prospecting for gold was the MOST costly education I have ever had...and the continuation courses are also very expensive...lol

Good luck to ya...


Klondike...

 

[rangler]

First off, I am a proby here and this seems to be a fine forum. My name is Bryan, AKA Maverick41950 from the Dallas, NC area.
I have a Keene 12"X48" rig and I am using a HydroForce250 nozzle feeding the header which can be used on a pile of dirt or underwater equally well. I went through the "shoveling dirt" deal at Lucky Strike CG and gold mine and of course it is easy to find gold in salted dirt. Done with that for sure.
Now that I have the HF250, I have been working numerous creeks and branches and finding basically zilch. Just specks and very small specks at that. Am working spillovers, inside turns, around and under rocks large and small. Rasseled a few water snakes along the way and I hate that with a passion, especially the ones that drip out of trees and hit me or land right beside me.
The creeks I am working are a little outside of the gold belt in the Marion, Morganton area of NC but I am not far from Vein Mountain which is where Lucky Strike and Thermal City is located.
I am hitting private land streams and creeks, with owners permission, and most of this has never been worked before. I am not working underwater as I do not have diving equipment but I am getting 3' or so in most areas and most of the time I am hitting bedrock by then. Have even went so far as to "bait" a hole with 4-5 pickers to be sure that my rig is not flushing out and I find them every time.
I am panning concentrates, then rerunning the cons through a Desert Fox Spiral Wheel----Nothing but those few specks.
What am I doing wrong or am I just working dead areas? This deal just ain't gonna whup me.


First you want to test your sluice box..I use lead pellets from a shotgun shell, smashed to simulate a nugget or picker...place them on the ground underwater and suck them up with the nozzle run the dredge for a couple of minutes, then shut off the motor..the lead pieces should not only be right there but in front of the FIRST riffle..if they are blown down a riffle or two, adjust your box to about 1 inch drop for every foot of sluice box- when the box is right - you will see the black sands "boil" or move upsteam against the current - behind the riffle in a circular motion...only the larger rocks will need a little push to get going down steam and out of your box..keep your hands outof the box, use a little stick to push the cobbles out of the sluice box..


next know that very little gold will be deposited down stream from a hard rock gold mine, not enough free or loose gold, like would be in an ancient river bed gravel - for instance..

and lastly when I started back in the '80's in calif gold country...just using a snorkel, we learned very quickly /no air/no oro- simple as that..you must get down deeper than 3 feet, we usually work underwater down about 6 feet or so, then dredge down thru 3-4 feet of overburden to bed
rock where we can find as much as a half ounce in 5-6sq feet of exposed bedrock, that is rough not smooth in nature..be sure to work an cracks you see, no matter how thin they might look at first.
Also a huge rain swollen river and creek - the gold will be farther down steam, in normal water the gold might be just behind a boulder, at flood stage the gold might be 20' farther down steam than normal~!!
oro mucho senior
rangler [goldiver]
ps Gold is where you find it, but look in the right places

 

[Klondikeike]

Hey Maverick...

Thanks Klondike for the reply. I am going to try andput my answers in your reply. Hope this works. You're welcome...What will work is a steady diet of experimenting until you find the right combination to work for you.. then when you go to another watershed.. you mayneed to start over since some equipment will work well on this creek, but due to difference in gold purity and water tempature as well as the water ph level,not to mention the clay content, that same equipment may not work well at another location...and may need to modified again...

...I haveexperimented with the drop from 1" to 4". 1" does not clear out the rocks much at all and 3" seems to work best. Spacing is 3-4.
Even with the most effective matting, in my opinion, which is the GOLDHOG matting (http://www.goldhog.com/www.goldhog.com) I rarely have a dropover 2 1/2 inch to the foot and usually run aoud 2 1/4 inches.....with lots and lots of water...more water than your standard issue pump will usuallyproduce... If three inches drop works well, I'd tend to say you don't have enough water low...With most off the shelf equipment.. your drop should be inthe range of 1/1/2 to 2 inches per foot...

I am using 24" of deep V matting at theheader end and the factory green carpet the last 24". Using expanded metalthat came with it. Riffles do pack up if not enough drop on the box. At the header, keed the deep V matting.. cover it with miners moss... and place a punch plate of 1/4 to3/8 inch holes over the miners moss...wouldn't hurt to cover the miners moss inthe header with some expanded metal before installling the punch plate.....maybe a 1 1/2 inch raised, # 13 or 16....much of your fine gold will get caught here when properly engineered... (when measuring punch plate... the 1 1/2 indicates the width of the expanded hole.. raised or flate determines howmuch the metal is raised from a flat sheet of steel.. and the # and associatednumber determines the thickness or gauge of the expanded metal...13 beingthicker than 16...at 1 1/2 you may even find soe at the #9 thickness... butthat may be too much for your small box and header...)...............rifflepacking is usually caused by one or more of ther follwing thingshappening... 1) not enough water...2) improper fall.. usually too shallow... 3)lots of clay and it won't stay suspended in the water...We have talked aboutthe first 2.. clay, with your equpment s something you may not be able to overcome... But just to recap, because these first 2 points are where most people make their mistakes.. the drop should "TYPICALLY" be in the 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inchper foot range ...rarely below that or above that, unless running special matting like gold hog.... or really unique rivder gravels....most new prospectors are worried about blowing gold out.. TURN UP THE WATER...keep your box in the 1 1/2inch drop... the water should roll over the riffles wih just a slight "hump"....nice and smooth...and where the hump ends and comes down should be1 inch to 2 inchs or so in front the of the next riffle...with 3 to 4 inch spacing as it is with most off the shelp equipment, you may not get the propere"rolling" effect as you would in a 5 or 6 inch spacing riffle set up...this is important to establish the "eddy" current to suck the gold back into the rifle for capture....and keep the riffles from packing... the reason they pack up, is not enough water pressure in the eddy current to keep the material active.... EVEN IF YOU DO NOT PRURCHASE ANYOF THE GOLD HOG MATTING.. GO TO THEIR WEBSIE AND WATCH ALL 10 PLUS OR SO HOURS OF VIDEOS... REALLY GOOD INFORMATION ON HOW A RIFFLE REALLY WORKS... THEN APPLY THIS INFORMTION TO YOU OWN SITUATION....

I have not studied the creeks I am working at unusually high water but I will make a point to do that. With the knowledge that I have (and I only have enough knowledge to be dangerous) , I just may be working the wrong areas of the creeks. I do have a serious aversion to "lowshoulders" and these creeks are seriously in Copperhead and Rattlercountry. I have a partner that works with me and the other is always watchingwhile the other one is dredging. I enjoy this a lot and I am determined tofurther educate myself on finding this elusive Gold stuff.
There are places I can go inthe general area to pay and use my equipment but everything in those areas is salted. I want to find it on my own and know for sure that it wasn't baited there.
Thank you for your response and I hope my answers to you are sufficient. If not, let me know and I will try my best to give good answers.
Bryan

RESEARCH...RESEARCH...RESEARCH....AND MORE RESEARCH IS A BIG KEY TO SUCCESSFUL PROSPECTING...BOOTS ON THE GROUD SAMPLING.... taking sample pans lots of sample pans LONG before the equipmentis set up.... find where the "fines" are in the "float" ofthe sands laid down at high water .. usually your pickers will be there too...just a lot deeper...if you can dig deeper and take sample pans from the deeper layers.. do all this BEFORE you set up your equipment...

Is always good to have a partner with you...and becareful...as you seem to be... I am familiar with rattlers and copper heads too... while not usuall agressive, unless pervoked,the equipment noise certainly can make then cuirious for sure...this activity can be very much a lot of fun...and profitable... when you take the propersteps..

Klondike...

Also...since you are keeping your pickers....the box is working okay for heavier things like lead shot and such...what you need it to do is capture the fine gold...all the modifications I spoke of WILL help capture fine gold...I've been a commercial miner now for many, many, many years nearly 30 years..plus at least 10 more years as a weekend warrior...and have found thibg for sure...the real value is in the fnes....caputuring the heavies is easy...almost anything will do that...but capturing the fines will determind if you are a miner or not...

As far as depth of bedrock...you will need to go as deep as it is...I am on property now that bedrock is only 8 inches deep in many places...and other places on the same property where it is 20 feet deep......and I have commercially mined places in the California Sierra's where bedrock was 125 feet deep...and just about anywhere in between... It is important to go to bedrock..but don't eliminate the false bedrocks as you go deeper...it is amazing how rich some of them can be with float gold...


Good luck to you...


Klondike...

 

[maverick41950]

I really appreciate the suggestions. I am fully aware that I have a lot to learn but I am determined to be successful at this. Will be working my "claim" 3 days this week and I will report in.
Thanks again for everything.
Bryan