How old are these cartridge shell casings? Collectible or scrap metal?

[FreeBirdTim]

These belonged to a late uncle of mine. Any idea as to the age or if they are worth saving? I also have his Lyman bullet mold and block that he used to make the bullets. I know that is worth a decent amount, but what about the shell casings?

 

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[Greybear]

My guess would be turn of the century to maybe the 1930's. 45-70 was used from the 1870's to present but the head stamps are older. Google the head stamps. United Metallic Corp and Remington Arms Company.

 

[Greybear]

WRA is Winchester Repeating Arms. Sorry for the brain fart!

 

[Greybear]

Also I think UMC is Union Metallic Co. Having a tough morning, not enough sleep last night.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Okay, I'll give it a shot with Google. I also have one that is stamped R.I.F and the number 84 on the right side. Could that mean it's from 1884? I know nothing about this subject, so bear with me!

 

[Greybear]

I'm not familiar with the RIF head stamp or the 84. Springfield made the 1873 trapdoor and an 1884 trapdoor model. Also Sharps made their single shot rifle chambered in 45-70 as that was a standard military round till the late 1800's. Again Google may come up with the answer.

 

[Greybear]

BTW the 45/70 stands for 45 calibre, 70 grains of Black powder. Many times you may see a 3rd number in reloading data which will be the bullet weight such as 45/70/410. Both Springfield rifles and carbines were chambered in 45/70. The 84 could possibly reference to the 1884 model. Springfield made some improvements in the design and the cartridge may have been approved for the 84 model but not the 73 model due to changes in the load or bullet weight that could have raised chamber pressure. This is purely a guess on my part but seem plausible.

 

[BosnMate]

I see some cases in there that are necked down, and I have no idea what they are. You brass has been fired using black powder, however, for a number of reasons, they don't appear to me to be very old, people still shoot those guns, me among them. I still use black powder in mine, however they are also manufactured with smokeless powder, and have been for close to 100 years. The straight sided brass is the 45-70. The last brass of that caliber that I purchased was 100 rounds for $55, but that was some time ago. I think it now might be up to .80 to .85 cents each. Your used cases wouldn't be worth that much, perhaps two bits or so unless you happen to have a collectable in there, but that's an entire different story, and I don't see any really early ones that would be really collectable. The bullets are hand cast, unsized and not lubed, I wouldn't think you would get a lot for them, perhaps scrap lead prices. If I had them I'd melt and recast to what I wanted. Regarding your RIF 84. If the F is on the left side or top, the 84 on the right side, the R on the bottom, that means the cartridge was manufactured at Frankford Arsenal, R means it was a rifle load, (70 grains of powder, Carbine loads were 55 grains of powder and marked with a C) and the year would be 1884. Is that the only dated headstamp. This information is from my memory, there are books written about 45.70 cartridges, and I've forgotten a lot. Here is a place for you to start: AMMO-ONE collectible_ammunition,ammunition,collectible_ammo, ammo,cartridges,rare_ammunition,bullets,hard_to_find_ammunition,sabots,books,cartridge_books,ammo_books,autographed_ammo_books,gun_books,books_on_guns,books_on_bullets,bullet_books and here is another that is loaded with information: The U.S. Springfield Trapdoor Rifle Information Center Hope this helps.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

BosnMate, Thanks for all the info! The two necked down cases have "VPT 38" on one and "SL 43" on the other. There are a few of the regular type cases with the F on top, the number 12 on the left and the number 94 on the right side. Another one has the letter R on top, the letter W on the bottom, the number 6 on the left and the number 86 on the right.

Most are the U.M.C. or the W.R.A Co. casings. Some are very worn and difficult to read. Guess this project will keep me busy!

Thanks for all the help, everyone!

 

[BosnMate]

BosnMate, Thanks for all the info! The two necked down cases have "VPT 38" on one and "SL 43" on the other. There are a few of the regular type cases with the F on top, the number 12 on the left and the number 94 on the right side. Another one has the letter R on top, the letter W on the bottom, the number 6 on the left and the number 86 on the right.

Most are the U.M.C. or the W.R.A Co. casings. Some are very worn and difficult to read. Guess this project will keep me busy!

Thanks for all the help, everyone!

SL 43, Salt Lake City Arsenal 1943 which is just a guess. F stands for Frankford Arsenal, 12 is December and 94 is 1894, that's not a guess. The R and W I don't know, but the 6 is June and 1886 is the year.