How far do you go in getting permission?

[srcdco]

Here's my strange story from Saturday afternoon.

A few years ago, I stopped to talk with someone arrowhead hunting in a field on my way home from work. I asked him who the owner was to get permission for detecting and he told me. The next weekend, I stopped by the farmer's house and talked to him about it. He said no problem, just stay out of their way and away from any houses that currently exist. I even asked which fields he owns and he said all of those within about 2 miles around the farm. He told me to watch out for a guy that would stop and kick me out, saying the he was the owner, and to stop and report it if it happened.

Fast forward to Saturday afternoon. I'm detecting in one of these fields and this very irate guy stops and tells me to leave. He even goes as far as to say that I'm stealing from him and that I have to give him everything that I've ever found there (I laughed at that - laughing really makes mad people even madder). At this point, I told him I had permission and he asked where from. I told him that the farmer around the corner had given me permission. His response was that the farmer didn't own the property and had no right to give me permission. Keep in mind that every sentence had the F-word in it. He wanted me to empty my pockets and I walked away. As I walked away, he said he wasn't done with me because I hadn't given him the "good stuff". I said that I was obeying his request to leave.

So, today I decided to do some research and find out who owns the property. I went to the county website and looked up the tax roles and the tax maps. As it turns out, the farmer that gave me permission does not own the land. I'm not sure that the guy that stopped owns it either, but it's likely that he does.

My question to everyone is: how far do you go in obtaining permission? I thought I had done enough, but it obviously wasn't. I don't know why the farmer that I talked to lied about what he owned. It doesn't make sense. Should I have done the research online years ago before asking?

Scott

 

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[Hookedondetecting]

Evidenatally in your case Yes, you should have done more.
A club near me provides a form you can print out and take with you on your quest.
You are to have the owner of the property sign the form giving you permission. Keep the form with you in case you are challenged.
In your case the form would have proved you are a victim of a practical joker and put the blame on the neighbor.
maybe you should look up the real owner and appollogize and explain the situation and turn the stuff over. That may get you real permission if you can strike a deal.

 

[justdugcrazy]

Research my friend I had gotten permission from a care taker to a property but low and behold the property was sold and caretakers were changed without me knowing when a Man approached me and asked what I was doing ( as if me swinging a metal detector was a clue for him) I told him hunting relics bit only was removing old beer cans and pull tabs.....He then stated that I we trespassing and I had no right since nobody was given permission to be on the property. I had told him my source and even pulled out my phone to call my source up when he kindly told me the property was sold and the new owner never had given anyone permission to be on property I apologized and made my way out......WHAT CAN YA DO RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH KEEP DIGGIN AND KEEp POSTING BROTHER!!!!!!!!

 

[jewelerguy]

sounds like farmer #1 gets a kick out of making farmer #2 mad at detectorists expense. I guess you could consider yourself lucky you didn't get shot.

 

[ironhorse]

If the farmer does business with the owner and leases the land for crops then under many lease agreements, the farmer can allow whomever he wants to on the land
The owner should have his beef with the farmer

 

[WHADIFIND]

Trust everyone! (but always verify!)

 

[wheatfinder13]

What did you find?

 

[TheCoinKid]

A two mile radius around a farm (house, I presume), would be around 8,000 acres, a pretty big spread (even in Texas where I come from).

Maybe you should have asked him to follow you to the farm house to get it straightened out (Yea, if I was being screamed at and F-bombed, I would have probably exited the area too). Just seems like someone other than you should take some heat!

I guess, to be perfectly safe, if you found anything valuable, you should probably return it to the land owner, whoever that my be.

TCK

 

[TNGUNS]

Long story short, always go as far as you can to make sure those that give permission have that right. Had one about a year ago that got pretty ugly. In twenties years I have only had 2 instances where an issue was made of my permission being valid. In both cases I had obtained permission from the owner but their children got bent out of shape.

 

[fongu]

I use the tax assessor's office online to find the owner and write them a letter asking for written permission. Some people will give you verbal permission and a few will not reply. The last place I got permission from gave me written letter and told me in the letter that the farmer or his son who leased the farm land or her father might stop and ask who I was and to just show them the letter. I've only been to this location 3 times and haven't found anything but beer cans and a doll leg last week. Nobody has asked me what I was doing, but by having written permission on my person, I am covered. This land owner has had a problem with people going on her property for artifacts and appreciated me asking for permission instead of just trying to get in and out without getting caught.

 

[Erik in NJ]

"He told me to watch out for a guy that would stop and kick me out, saying the he was the owner, and to stop and report it if it happened."

This statement would have been a real red flag for me--didn't you then ask the guy who this guy is and why he would try to kick you out? Report it to whom? Seems these would be the next logical questions, no? If the irate guy was indeed the land owner and asked for the items back then you had an obligation to hand over the items rather than fleer and walk away.

It seems there are still too many unanswered questions to this story.

 

[srcdco]

I did think that the statement about someone trying to kick me out was strange and I did ask more about that. I was told that the person wanted everything for themselves, so they "pretended" to be the owner to keep others from detecting or looking for arrowheads, which is what most people do. I was supposed to report it to the farmer and I still plan on talking to the farmer to get to the bottom of what's really going on here. I also plan on talking to the two arrowhead hunters that originally directed me to the farmer for permission. In the past, I've gone to the closest farm to ask for permission and if they didn't own the particular field, they would tell me who did. This is the first time that something like this has happened. I had no reason to not believe the farmer at the time.
As far as giving the owner the "good" items the I found, I hadn't found any. Someone else had recently been there and I had only found a few pieces of broken iron and nails. I showed him my pouch, but he insisted that I was lying to him and hiding items somewhere. He refused to listen when I said I hadn't found anything good, responding with "You're lying. You're all a bunch of F---ing liars and thieves!".

Scott

 

[Erik in NJ]

Here's my strange story from Saturday afternoon.

A few years ago, I stopped to talk with someone arrowhead hunting in a field on my way home from work. I asked him who the owner was to get permission for detecting and he told me. The next weekend, I stopped by the farmer's house and talked to him about it. He said no problem, just stay out of their way and away from any houses that currently exist. I even asked which fields he owns and he said all of those within about 2 miles around the farm. He told me to watch out for a guy that would stop and kick me out, saying the he was the owner, and to stop and report it if it happened.

Fast forward to Saturday afternoon. I'm detecting in one of these fields and this very irate guy stops and tells me to leave. He even goes as far as to say that I'm stealing from him and that I have to give him everything that I've ever found there (I laughed at that - laughing really makes mad people even madder). At this point, I told him I had permission and he asked where from. I told him that the farmer around the corner had given me permission. His response was that the farmer didn't own the property and had no right to give me permission. Keep in mind that every sentence had the F-word in it. He wanted me to empty my pockets and I walked away. As I walked away, he said he wasn't done with me because I hadn't given him the "good stuff". I said that I was obeying his request to leave.

So, today I decided to do some research and find out who owns the property. I went to the county website and looked up the tax roles and the tax maps. As it turns out, the farmer that gave me permission does not own the land. I'm not sure that the guy that stopped owns it either, but it's likely that he does.

My question to everyone is: how far do you go in obtaining permission? I thought I had done enough, but it obviously wasn't. I don't know why the farmer that I talked to lied about what he owned. It doesn't make sense. Should I have done the research online years ago before asking?

Scott

So you obtained permission "a few years ago" from a farmer who claims he owned the land? And after a few years later you detected the property and were confronted by this irate guy. Did you ask him if he was the current landowner? If a few years had gone by, the property may have changed hands. I would go back to the original farmer for clarification and find out who actually owns the property. If the other man is the owner then you are obliged to hand over the things you found if he's requesting it--give him all of the junk and apologize for any misunderstanding and it may generate some goodwill. It's a strange story, I look forward to hearing more facts as they evolve.

 

[srcdco]

Ok, I believe I've got to the bottom of this.

The irate guy that kicked me out is the owner of the property.

The farmer that originally gave me permission is renting the land from the owner. According to him, he believes that because he's paying to use the land he has the option of giving permission to others to use it as well. He still stands by that, but that's between him and the owner. From now on, I'll stay off it and leave that to them. I only wish he'd explained that to me years ago when I asked for permission. I was always told that with rented property you have to get permission from both the owner and the renter, neither was good enough on their own.

At least now I have the maps and some of the land is owned by the farmer outright.

Scott

 

[mariposagold]

I drafted a general Permission & Release of Liability form that you can fill out in the field. I've only used it once, but I would highly recommend you have the landowner sign one before hunting private property unless you know them and their neighbors well. You never know when someone is going to approach you or call the police to report suspicions activity.

I farmer that signed my for, I've known for more than 10 years, but in AG area's, theft of equipment and raw materials, have many on edge. Samples or such are readily available on the internet. Or I can e-mail you a copy of mine.

Even with permission, I would still do some homework in verifying the proper owner. Sounds like you got yourself in the middle of a feud with these guys.

 

[mariposagold]

"He told me to watch out for a guy that would stop and kick me out, saying the he was the owner, and to stop and report it if it happened."

This statement would have been a real red flag for me--didn't you then ask the guy who this guy is and why he would try to kick you out? Report it to whom? Seems these would be the next logical questions, no? If the irate guy was indeed the land owner and asked for the items back then you had an obligation to hand over the items rather than fleer and walk away.

It seems there are still too many unanswered questions to this story.

I agree, that statement was a major red flag. I wouldn't have hunted the land based on that comment.

 

[mr_rich]

I was on my property one day and a bunch of hunting dogs came running through they found a half bowl of food I had put out for my dogs that morning. The guy running the dogs comes running up behind and started yelling at me for letting his dogs eat my dogs food! lol!

 

[Davers]

Trust NO ONE & Question EVERYTHING!!!! PEOPLE -ha many just make me laugh.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

I've basically had the same thing happen - the landowner who told me he owned all these fields that we could hunt (which I know he owned most of them) when we were hunting this one field a guy comes out on a John Deere gator and asked what we were doing (i think he was shocked to even see a MD) he told us that he is so use to kicking hunters off and not MDers and that he never seen a MD in the field before - he then went on to say that he owned this field and the farmer who gave us permission was a good friend of his but did not have rights to grant permission on his property - he was really kewl about it though and let us hunt his property and around this old house site that was on his property. So it wasn't a yelling match but a good outcome, but i learned a lesson not to believe that when someone gives you permission that they might fabricate what they really own and don't own...

 

[BuckleBoy]

Well, the farmer told you that he wasn't the owner. And furthermore he told you that if the owner caught you he'd kick you out. What did you expect?

After you told the owner that the farmer gave you permission, I bet the farmer got is A$$ chewed too.

Not good for you, and not good for our hobby or anyone every hunting there again. The answer is simple, and I swear by it. Get permission from BOTH.



-Buck