how do you pros tell a reproduction....

[bravowhiskey]

how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

I want to know how it is done. Now, even a rank amateur can tell a precut slab if there is part of the cut showing. The marks are obvious. The cutting blade leaves striations obvious even without magnification. Here is an example:

I have noticed also, a lot of real points and even scrapers are not exactly flat, but can retain a good portion of the "bend" in the flake that has been removed from the core. they can come out pretty warped looking at times. That to me is authenticity. Example 2:

Also a flake removed from a core has an absolutely smooth face to it, with no striations. Here is one of my favorite, recently found, uniface scraper/knife? that illustrates that very well:

additionally a piece with a bit of the cobble/core still attached is a great indicator, see below:

Folks speak of "patina" which is brought about by age and the material in which it lay over the years.
While I am not from Missouri, I still want to say...show me. Some artifacts it would seem obvious and others not so much. Please someone...a good example of this with a professional explanation.

Can you pro's please explain further with some good examples of other discernable differences between a repro and an authentic piece for us rookies. Also if I am off on anything I have said please tell me. These things I figured out for myself and may still be wrong. I certainly am not opposed to critique, but welcome it.

May the Gods of knowledge smile down upon us.
BW

 

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[Atlantis0077]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

Afternoon,

That is a fairly tall order and I could sum it up in one word...experience. Since that takes more time than most want to put in, the next best thing is education. I recommend the following book. Relics and Reproductions by Bennett. There are many such books, but this is a good one richly illustrated. I think you would do well to get a copy if you are serious.

Atlantis

 

[jeff a]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

like atlantis said alot of experience , go to as many shows as you can and talk to the other collectors,pick up flint chips and break them to see what the flint in your area looks like fresh,and read as much as you can ,i've been doing this for 40 yrs and im still learning new things

 

[Tnmountains]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

Folks speak of "patina" which is brought about by age and the material in which it lay over the years.
While I am not from Missouri, I still want to say...show me. Some artifacts it would seem obvious and others not so much. Please someone...a good example of this with a professional explanation.

Bravo I find stuff in the water that looks like it was made yesterday but I know its thousands of years old. Then I find a material that may be a little more porous with heavy patina on it. I found this lying on top of the ground covered with moss at the back of a rock shelter by a spring on the cumberland plateu. Its a unifaced blade but the patina on the top is diffrent then what was laying wet on the bottom. It looks like a guy dancing with an animal skin on to me. Anyways I think its a good example of old patina?? But I am no expert either. I saw a fluted folsom the other day that was very real and it looked to be made yesterday but I know for 100% it is real.

 

[centfladigger]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

the cortex being left on a point isnt a indicator that its authentic, heres a point made by a friend of mine from some of my coral.

patina can be faked as well, study your point types from your area and get to know who the reputable buyers/sellers/collectors are. Alot of knappers like to make a thin point , not all where thin, know your bevels, right or left, especially know your material. There is nothing like "dig experience" as we call it. Thats why I have never bought any aritfacts I prefer to find my own and have been blessed to have had some good sites.

 

[uniface]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

There are so many aspects of this, somebody could write a book about it.

Matter of fact, somebody did !

If you're buying highly popular stuff (Clovis points, Birdstones, Dovetails, Corner Tangs, Bannerstones &c) that brings big bucks, you can easily find yourself in fakes up to your chin. Especially if you're holding out for large, perfect examples made of beautiful material. There are a million fakes out there that meet these criteria because there is a never-ending market for them.

If I ever bought points, they'd be broken ones going for cheap. (Bidding on one now, actually. First one ever).

Fortunately, not many people are faking flake tools

 

[Th3rty7]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

There are so many aspects of this, somebody could write a book about it.

Matter of fact, somebody did !

If you're buying highly popular stuff (Clovis points, Birdstones, Dovetails, Corner Tangs, Bannerstones &c) that brings big bucks, you can easily find yourself in fakes up to your chin. Especially if you're holding out for large, perfect examples made of beautiful material. There are a million fakes out there that meet these criteria because there is a never-ending market for them.

If I ever bought points, they'd be broken ones going for cheap. (Bidding on one now, actually. First one ever).

Fortunately, not many people are faking flake tools

Speaking of books, when are you going to write a guide on Uniface tools? If you want some broken points, I've got a few lbs you can have.......seriously. Just let me know.

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

I want to know how it is done. Now, even a rank amateur can tell a precut slab if there is part of the cut showing. The marks are obvious. The cutting blade leaves striations obvious even without magnification. Here is an example:


I have noticed also, a lot of real points and even scrapers are not exactly flat, but can retain a good portion of the "bend" in the flake that has been removed from the core. they can come out pretty warped looking at times. That to me is authenticity. Example 2:


Also a flake removed from a core has an absolutely smooth face to it, with no striations. Here is one of my favorite, recently found, uniface scraper/knife? that illustrates that very well:


additionally a piece with a bit of the cobble/core still attached is a great indicator, see below:



Folks speak of "patina" which is brought about by age and the material in which it lay over the years.
While I am not from Missouri, I still want to say...show me. Some artifacts it would seem obvious and others not so much. Please someone...a good example of this with a professional explanation.

Can you pro's please explain further with some good examples of other discernable differences between a repro and an authentic piece for us rookies. Also if I am off on anything I have said please tell me. These things I figured out for myself and may still be wrong. I certainly am not opposed to critique, but welcome it.

May the Gods of knowledge smile down upon us.
BW

I'll try to address these in order. "Flat" areas do occur on authentic artifacts on occasion. There are certain flints that occur in striated, flat, layers that will be mistaken for a sawn cut slabs. However, they aren't common. What you want to look for is the mechanical tooling, the circular striations that are common with anything cut from a rock saw. I see people that talk about "look for the saw marks, or being sanded down with sandpaper, etc". I have to tell you, it's not common to see those things in a reproduction. If they were all that easy, it would be great! Alas, they aren't.

As for the "bend" in the stone, that determines nothing other than it was made from a spall. Both modern and authentic both can be made that way. Sometimes knappers (both modern and ancient) got lazy and didn't want to clear the face of the ventral surface and this would leave the flat area. Especially common to see on birdies, as they were all made from spalled flakes. Trying to straighten up a bent spall would mean you will lose some width and length, and aboriginal knappers often didn't deem that necessary (for a utilitarian tool anyways).

Don't expect good fakes to be perfect, and don't assume everything "perfect" is fake. Don't assume. The better fakes will always have things on them to convince people they are anything but. Here's a story for you. I was sitting with a guy (knapper) who has been doing it forever. Unfortunately, he has a LOT of fakes out there in collections, tons. There are hundreds of his points published as authentic in various mags and books. It's easy to pick out his work (as well as others) once you become familiar with them. Anyways, he finished knapping out a large white point and picked up a large rusty file and starting flaying away at the point. He whacked it all over, putting dings in the edges, etc. When asked "What are you doing?", he responded with "adding plow marks".

This brings us to another point. The above knapper does not sell his points as ancient. He tells people straight up-front that they are modern reproductions, made by him. In fact, I have met very few knappers who are criminal minded like that. It doesn't stop them from winding up in the wrong places being advertised as the real deal though. It's the criminal mind that we need to worry about. It's the greedy individuals who will sell their soul to try and make a buck from you, whether they are a knapper, collector, or anyone else.

Every knapper leaves their own personal fingerprints in their work. You don't need a signature to be able to tell (for the most part) Rheinhardt's Gray ghosts, McCormick's folsoms, Thomas' Agees, Swoose's pandales, Warren's FOG points, etc. They each knap a certain way and have distinct traits. You should learn to familiarize yourself with their work.

I had a lot more to say, about weathering, patination, chemicals processes, etc - but have ran out of time. Some years ago I had started making a simple webpage on helping to determine authenticity, but never was able to finish it. Here's the start of it - http://www.arrowheads1.com/fakes.htm Remember that it's just started, and a work in progress. One day I'll find the time to work on it more.

 

[uniface]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....



Great stuff, Neanderthal.

Looking forward to this winter, when you'll have time to pull up a chair and write at length ! (Let's hope, anyway !)

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....


Thank you for the little nuances that were as descriptive as words can allow. I have been doing this for just about a month. I had been hiking in the greater Austin area and began collecting rocks that looked interesting. I am from NYC and a local friend saw what I was selecting with interest while asking if I knew a few of the rocks were arrowheads. I admitted my ignorance which led me to go through my entire "stash". I am still learning the different colors of flint that exists in droves around these parts.

My problem with the reproduction identification is that every native Central Texan fancies themselves artifact experts. I have been told there is a certain type of light which is able to ascertain any recent work done on the specimen.

Is that complete rubbish or does this mystery light exist? Thank you all once again for such amazingly helpful and friendly advice.

 

[sidmind]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

My problem with the reproduction identification is that every native Central Texan fancies themselves artifact experts. I have been told there is a certain type of light which is able to ascertain any recent work done on the specimen.

Is that complete rubbish or does this mystery light exist? Thank you all once again for such amazingly helpful and friendly advice.

you might be talking about laser's.

here is a web site you can read about it yourself. and a cool web site at that.

http://www.wbreckinridge.com/index.html

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

Thank you for the very helpful link. I have a friend who is a master at making his own. He gave me some to show me the technique. I have been studying his and, sure enough, I can definitely tell a difference in the way he beveled them versus my authentic ones. It is still very difficult but I can now see how experience is your best asset.

 

[bravowhiskey]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

Haven't been posting much of late, but wanted to thank all who have participated in my learning experience. Experience is the best teacher, and that's for certain!

Neanderthal, certainly want to thank you for that disscertation, as usual my assuming has not helped. Leave it to the pros and that is why this was posted in the first place.

Keep your powder dry and a keen eye to the ground.

BW

 

[Tnmountains]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

Have you been hunting civil war stuff

 

[uniface]

Re: how do you pro's tell a reproduction....

I have been told there is a certain type of light which is able to ascertain any recent work done on the specimen.

What they're talking about is using ultraviolet lights (long +/or short wavelengths). This is a better procedure for identifying flint than authenticity, as re-working can be UV "colored" to match the undisturbed surfaces around them.

Long story. There is no magic bullet. But Bill Breckenridge's combination of procedures, IMO, comes as close as anybody's ever likely to come to one.