Hey Red Coat Plated English Sterling ?

[tamrock]

Mr. Coat, I want your advice on what it is I purchased in an indoor flea market for very little funds. Little background is the bottom dish was found in a booth ran by a group that is engaged in estate liquidation sales and they sell though various antique malls also. I thought to myself this dish is very unique, but from what I see on the hallmarks it's sterling silver, but its not at all the finish of old sterling as its luster is nothing like that silver. It's almost as shiny as mirror. About a week later as I was in this same flea market I spotted the covered glass bowl and instantly recognized it as what the silver dish was meant to go to. It also was priced low. I believe this silver may be Rhodium plated or its a fake with misleading hallmarks?. The luster of it I'm sure is why the sellers rejected the idea it can't be sterling silver, so it must be only made to fool, as these estate people have had sterling in their booth before and it's always been priced accordingly as sterling silver should be. What do think it may be... Real silver or made to look as such and if genuine what is it plated with?

Dish 7" diameter
Lid 5-1/2" diameter
Combined weight lid & plate 369 grams
Date letter 1869 ??
Maker E.B.& J.B.

Best regards, Grant

 

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[Red-Coat]

Hi Grant

Unquestionably sterling silver and not plated. The 'EB over JB in quatrefoil' mark is that of Edward & John Barnard of London. That mark was in use from 1858 and the piece itself is London assay-marked for 1863 (lower case gothic 'h'). Hallmarks all look good, including the required duty mark (Victoria's head) for that period.

Very nice.

All the best
Roger

 

[Red-Coat]

PS: Rhodium plating didn't appear until the 1920s and wasn't used on silver until about 1932. I would think the 'finish' on your piece is a function of the environment in which it has been and/or what it has been polished with subsequent to its manufacture.

 

[tamrock]

Thanks Roger, I've no clue why this piece remains so untarnished in the years I've owned it and I have never as much wiped it with soft cloth. I did find in research that some of the early uses for rhodium was plating on some sterling in order to preserve its luster. but I can't recall I've ever found when that practice was first used. It just seems to me to be plated with some corrosion resistance metal plate, so maybe it just has a very fine finish. Have you any idea what this particular service piece was intended to be used for? Seems the Victorians really wanted to impress with the variety of tables settings they could layout for their friends and guests. Now days its what you got parked in the driveway.

 

[Red-Coat]

When I finish silver pieces I have made, I use a polishing mop impregnated with 'tripoli' (a finely powdered rock) and then with jeweller's rouge (iron oxide)... both mixed with wax. These traditional and purely physical methods give a mirror-like sheen to silver which both lasts longer and doesn't develop the kind of patination you get from aggressive chemical metal polishes.

 

[tamrock]

Good to know, but does sound laborious. On stuff I want to spiff up to sell I use the sold over the counter Wrights Silver cream. It gets rid of the dark patina, but I do know its not perfection. Now days I just save the silver I manage to score cheap, with the exception of weighted stuff. Those are crushed and taken to the pm dealer for cash or trade, as he does get some jewelry thats well worth while to trade up on and I get the feeling that cheap weighted silver will now get a chance to be something more beautiful like a coin, bar of silver bullion or work of art being melted down and fashioned into a new. So your an actual silversmith and artist ?

 

[Red-Coat]

So your an actual silversmith and artist ?

Only in an amateur sense and for my own enjoyment... plus it's nice to make unique pieces as gifts for friends. Been silversmithing on and off for about 8 years. Our local Adult Education Centre runs periodic 10 week courses at government-subsidised prices with great tutors.

 

[tamrock]

Only in an amateur sense and for my own enjoyment... plus it's nice to make unique pieces as gifts for friends. Been silversmithing on and off for about 8 years. Our local Adult Education Centre runs periodic 10 week courses at government-subsidised prices with great tutors.

Yeah they have those same courses here also. I could see that being fun to try a little hands on experience with. I've looked at a few people online that can do restoration on silver, such as this Jeffrey Herman, Herman Silver Restoration & Conservation: Services Offered but I would think a talent such as his would be very expensive and with a pretty long wait time to complete. Closest I ever got to any hands on artistry was working summers in a small auto body shop owed by a neighbor. It was all hands on repair of mangled fenders pulling and stretching all back to shape in 1974. A lot a chrome bumpers back then we'd take to a shop that you'd take the damaged bumper to and trade in for the same model all straightened out and re-chromed. Back then I thought I found my calling, but things changed in other directions along the path of life.

 

[ARC]

Per your title...

I hate when they plate sterling.

:P

 

[tamrock]

Per your title...

I hate when they plate sterling.

:P

I found a crusty bent up fork in the field behind where I live at an old coal mine site. I rubbed the raised lettering and it revealed the word sterling, with another word after. When I rubbed off the second word it revealed plate. I said What! Sterling Plate, what the heck is that.

 

[Red-Coat]

If you listen carefully, you will probably hear the sound of a can of worms being opened.

‘Sterling plate’ can only be achieved by hot rolling a sheet of Sterling silver onto another metal or alloy. It can’t be achieved by electro-plating, which will only deposit pure silver as the coating. When it’s true Sterling plate (ie hot-rolled) the underlying metal will always be base metal and it wouldn’t be ‘Sterling’ by British standards. In any other context (such as electro-plating), it’s a ‘terminological inexactitude’, or intended to deceive and pass off the item as full Sterling silver. Relatively common in the USA in earlier times, but almost unheard of in Britain.

Even before the advent of rhodium plating (circa 1932 for silver) it was possible to electro-plate Sterling items with pure silver (from about 1840). This is occasionally seen for one of two reasons. Sometimes it’s what is called a ‘shop finish’ and can give a more attractive (?) whiter finish, particularly on intricate pieces with lots of piercings, fretwork or recesses. But it doesn’t last and gets polished or wears away pretty quickly. You then have a piece which is patchy in appearance. Since you have a quality piece and the hallmarks have seen some heavy polishing/wear, I would doubt that it has been given ‘shop-finish’.

More usually it’s to cover up what is known as ‘fire-stain’ which is the result of Sterling silver being accidentally over-heated during soldering when a piece is assembled rather than fully cast in one piece. Thinner and more intricate areas may be more vulnerable to overheating and staining, as well as making it more difficult to polish out, but it’s not something you would expect to see on a quality piece.

[Anything assayed in Britain carries the assay mark for the lowest fineness of its component parts. Sterling which has been electro-plated with pure silver would only be deemed to meet the Sterling standard (.925) and marked accordingly.]