Hey, how am i going to blow up this cave?

Slippery Jack

Greenie
Jun 22, 2010
10
0
Okay, so I'm not actually going to blow up any caves but here's the situation. I began an interest in treasure hunting and exploration after hearing about a local man whom during the time of the gold rush struck it big and went a bit insane, the legend is upheld by several well documented newspaper stories and local folklore. Anyway as the story goes, after hoarding away his fortune because of a deep distrust that any and all those involved in gold to cash transaction would scheme him out of his wealth, he would wonder the land for most of the week leaving his family on whim and stopping only on Sundays to preach. Then he died. It was said that he was laid to rest in a tomb that had been crafted out of a cave he often went to on his trips. His body was laid to rest and it was said that his wishes was that the cave be sealed. The family then learned the fortune they had hoped to inherit had just been sealed along with the man who hoarded it so. Its said that the family did not know where the treasure was hidden, it was only years later that his daughter on her deathbed that somedays she would often find her father leaving the house with gold in his socks, never commenting on it. It was fairly clear after that, that he had hidden the gold in his tomb which was now sealed. She did not tell the location nor did any of her children know. No other member of the family that had laid him to rest at the tomb were left in the area, and it was speculated if any of them were even still alive (this was 40 years after the burial) and so, the tomb, the man, and the fortune were seemingly lost forever.
Now lets flip to the present, lets say that I (easily swept up with something as romantic as buried treasure of a dead man) have scouted and explored my heart out, digging trenches climbing cliffs and the such, the area this man lived is well known and he could not have walked more than several miles, especially weighted down with gold. Now lets say today, I was climbing up a small rock ridge that began at knee height and rose about 25 feet, an easy climb. But when i lost my footing and jumped 4 feet back to the ground I landed in the fallen leaf and twig debris with a sounding *TISH* Curious as to what exactly was under my feet i cleared away the foliage and my facial expression was that of the following ??? I was standing in a pile of pebbles. I brushed away much more of the greenery to find an enormous pebble bank about 15 X 10ft. Doesn't seem that interesting i know, but the surrounding forest area had no small rock or pebble deposit, there were no streams, no high rainfall flash flood-paths, and no source for the rocks to appear. I started to dig, and after about 3 hours, the ridge bottom of the ridge that had been ankle height was dug out to my knees, another 2 hours and the rock wall had ended and it had begun to incline inward,an hour after that, i had cleared a good amount of the pebbles and the wall now had a very large indention in it, just before i was about to leave (it was getting dark around this time) I pushed away a handful of pebbles reached for another and came up empty handed. I had hit an opening. only able to spend a few more minutes before packing up i gathered that the pebble bank was at least 4 feet deep. And the only thing that would cause millions of pebbles to occupy a 4 foot depth under a rock-wall would be that they are blocking the entrance to a cave. I know that the "wall" has some depth to it, ive managed to clear a 4inch space or so and i can feel freezing cold air and a very musty smell being emitted from it. I need to know how I can clear the cave mouth, the area is impossible to bet farm equipment to, hands work faster than shovels scooping such fine yet heavy material. And I really don't want to involve my friends in this nor any hired hands. Is there any sort of method or cheap equipment i could use to empty out the mouth of the cave? Also as you may have noticed i didn't exactly put every name and location in the preceding legend, its not that i dont know all the details its just ya know, loose lips and such, if you know the legend don't feel like you have to keep your lips sealed, il gladly confirm if anyone knows the tale, but otherwise PLEASE HELP WITH THE EXCAVATION METHODS!
 

Step 1: don't tell anyone
Step 2: don't tell anyone
Step 3: find one or two preferably big dudes, to whom you would trust with your life
Step 4: get either 2 or 3 shovles depending on the numbe of people who you trust with your life
Step 5: dig
Step 6: don't tell anyone


SP
hh
 

stefpryce said:
Step 1: don't tell anyone
Step 2: don't tell anyone
Step 3: find one or two preferably big dudes, to whom you would trust with your life
Step 4: get either 2 or 3 shovles depending on the numbe of people who you trust with your life
Step 5: dig
Step 6: don't tell anyone


SP
hh
Lol Im a bit short of big dudes whom i trust with my life, and its not muscle that moves the pebbles, theyre so damn fine that if you put too much weight on one spot it doubles into itself and you loose your progress. I haven't told anyone and i haven't said anything and about the search for a good 2 weeks (ive been hunting for 4)
 

Then maybe just repeat steps 1, 2, 5, and 6?
Either way don't give up, until you can leave that place with heavy socks. Know what I mean?
 

Did you mention to him to NOT TELL ANYONE??? :laughing7: :laughing7:

Best of luck and keep us updated as much as possible
 

OldNBroken said:
Did you mention to him to NOT TELL ANYONE??? :laughing7: :laughing7:

Best of luck and keep us updated as much as possible

Im going back tomorrow with a camera. Il get some pictures up.
 

Sounds like you need something to shore up the top & sides to keep it from filling back in. If its soft you might be able to use a sledge hammer to ram the board or whatever into the side of the hill, then dig beneath it. You only need to get an opening big enough for you to crawl into but before you do that you need to make sure it is safe enough...wish I was there to help! Good luck Jack!
 

Can you tell us if this is in the uS? If so, what state? This might help ID the type of cave you might be dealing with.
One thing to keep in mind. Once you open it it should be disguised to prevent others from benefiting from your work.
 

coinshooter said:
Can you tell us if this is in the uS? If so, what state? This might help ID the type of cave you might be dealing with.
One thing to keep in mind. Once you open it it should be disguised to prevent others from benefiting from your work.

Like i said, dig up the story and there you go, already got a PM from another member familiar with the story, its fairly well known, i just happened to stumble upon some information by being with the right people at the right time. As for disguising the cave and such, lets wait till i get down there and see if its not just a hole in the wall first, then we can roll out the barbed wire and rottweilers!
 

WilliamBoyd said:
You can trust me.

:)

And the check's in the mail. Right??? :laughing7:
 

Jack,
Not telling anyone is important. Another thing to consider is your physical safety while digging and after opening up whatever this opening is. There are several physical safety items: being hurt while digging out the opening, being hurt or trapped inside the opening while your inside and being hurt by someone who finds you digging or in this place. There are a lot of possibilities here for physical harm so prepare yourself with safety equipment as well as a way to have a safety team come and find you if you do not return. Just my suggestions from someone who's had to call in a search and rescue team.

Shoring up is a good idea. Making a solid slide for the debris to exit the dig area might help with the physical labor. Sections of plywood attached together once you arrive at the spot might work if you can form them into a C or U shape and line it with heavy plastic sheet to make it slippery. Maybe using a 5 gallon plastic bucket to help move the debris away from the opening would help reduce the WORK/ENERGY needed to remove the small gravel. In my mind I would not want to dig a hole in this loose gravel and then crawl into a tight opening only to have the gravel pile collapse and seal me in this musty cold and dark opening possibly with a dead body and cold gold to keep me company while the air goes stale or whatever else is in there comes out to see what new thing is in there with them, spiders & snakes, bats or maybe rats.

Would putting the gravel into cloth sacks or plastic sand bag bags make it easier to do something with the gravel? It sounds like you've a lot of gravel to move and at least a good amount of it needs to come away from the opening OR Else stabilized (bags) so it will stay put. Make certain to move enough of the gravel so the rest is stable as you do not want your debris pile to collapse on the hole after you are inside. Only one way in and one way out. You can not bring in large equipment as it needs to be hand carried, so what critical tools would be the best to bring in? Can you build a pulley system to lift out the bucket of gravel?? I wonder what has kept the gravel from falling into the cave?

Also, think about what to take with you once you are in there. Headlamps, yes I mean bring in more than one light both with fresh batteries, are the best type of lights as they leave both your hands empty to work with. Food, water, a jacket (it's cold in there and cold will not be your friend), if your hair is thin take a hat or a helmet. If this fellow was that suspicious about people stealing all his wealth would he have placed traps in his cave? Be careful of what you touch, before you move anything look and then Look again move slowly and think about what you are doing. The excitement of the moment may be the last thing you experience just before the place caves in on you so be careful ESPECIALLY IF nobody knows where you are. Have that rescue plan in place before you go in there!

Once inside and you know where you are at at that moment, turn your light off, let your eyes adjust and look for other light sources, it could be helpful if you know there is a source for fresh air and you will only know that if you can see some light coming in through an opening. Depending on the area you are in you should carry a first aid kit with a snake bite kit as well. Oh, bring a small digital camera with a flash to record your find. Be prepared! Come back alive! Come back in one piece!

Before you go into the opening be as sure as you can that it is safe to go inside! "Look before you leap" is an old saying and it applies here, IMHO. If you look inside with your light and a wall of the cave glistens and maybe seems move, it could be spiders. That's what I found in a sealed cave in Arizona.

You are on the brink of a great adventure, even if it does not pan out to be "the hiding place" it will be a great adventure that you will learn from and remember as long as you are safe and careful about what you are doing. Having a rescue plan means involving others and where Lots of money is involved that is risky business. Carefully consider your options and then procede slowly as you are excited and want to find out what this place is. Oh, Dynamite would most likely NOT be the way to remove the gravel. The blast needs something solid to push against to be able to move something and with a hole behind it the energy would go towards the weakest spot, inside the cave. The blast could just totally seal the cave. How the dickens would the cave sealers been able to bring in all that gravel and how did they get it into the opening????? Is there an old road hidden in the underbrush, a lot of brush grows in 40 years? There is a lot of work ahead of you and I wish you luck, safety and good fortune.

Regards, 63bkpkr
 

The gentleman involved in this tale is not buried in the cave that he so laboriously built to hold his final remains...it is empty of human remains. Only the gold remains... :coffee2:
 

Jowlz said:
Ok... Just curious as to why the Grave Robbing Flag has not been raised... Am I missing something?

Ahh tomb, grave, whats a bit of wiggle room on an expedition going to cost you?

In all seriousness though, I wasn't aware if i have broken any rules of the forum, and i hadn't actually thought of it that way...
But like i said before lets not get ahead of ourselves, i wont know anything more untill i get back on the hunt and get the pebbles cleared, and if i do find a sack of gold, by all means my friend hoist that grave-robbing rag.
 

Hola amigos and WELCOME TO TREASURENET Slippery Jack :icon_thumleft: ,
First, forget about blasting a cave open, it will more likely collapse it even more.

Second, don't start work with that shovel before you do at least try probing that spot with a home-made 'probe' - a steel rod made out of rebar or better yet a smooth solid round steel of about 1/2 inch diameter, say six feet or so long, with a "T" welded to the end; sharpen the other end and use this to push into the ground where you think that cave opening is. If the fill is six feet or less in depth, you should feel it get suddenly easy if you shove the probe into the ground; if it is more, then dig and shore up a shaft (shore it with good sound lumber, nothing less than 2 inch thick) as you go. Then as you proceed to get deeper, keep testing the bottom of the hole with your probe. The fill might be 100 feet thick or worse, no way to tell for sure without digging, and using heavy machinery can lead to more problems - causing a cave in for example. Make yourself a good steel probe, and use it - you will find more use for a probe in the future anyway so it is a good investment for a treasure hunting tool and one of the most ancient, but it works and is safe.

If you have access to ground penetrating radar, you could test that spot with it, but the machines are cost-prohibitive (at the moment) so it is a more expensive and less labor-intensive option.

Good luck amigo I hope you will keep us posted with what you discover. :thumbsup:
Oroblanco

PS forgot to add, don't ever pound your steel probe into the ground; for one thing you could damage your probe if you strike a large rock, for another it might prove to be extremely difficult to get it back OUT if you pound it in. Use only your own weight to shove it down, twist it as you go, and even wiggle it a bit (think sex, heh heh) so that the probe won't get stuck in the ground or get ruined.
 

Do you have an estimate of cubic yards of material to be shifted? Do you know what king of "pebbles" these are? If truly rounded, burlap sacks might be both a method of isolating the material removed, and a way of shoring up the sides. For a relatively small opening, that might be possible. Take a flashlight with you next time, as well as something to estimate/guesstimate with.

Need more data! Crushed rock "pebbles" mixed with some dirt or sand will become fairly stable when put in bags. But very sharp edges on the rocks will sever the burlap threads, and make a BIG MESS, possibly ALL OVER YOU.

The less you have to move the pebbles, the more you can move in a short time. Canvas would be even better than burlap, but obtaining sacks might raise some eyebrows.

You'll need some way to seal these bags/sacks after filling them as well.

I wouldn't worry about the Grave Robbing Flag until after human remains are confirmed. You may not have found what you think you have found. Then again ...

A photo or too of the actual rocks to be moved might be helpful: you don't have to say where they came from, but different rock will have different stability characteristics.
 

Jowlz said:
Ok... Just curious as to why the Grave Robbing Flag has not been raised... Am I missing something?

Archaeologist's technically rob graves any chance they get. But they do it in the name of "science." I am not saying it is okay but come on. Leave the body and take the jewels! :tongue3:

Sorry it just bothers me that science can get away with it but if you don't have some piece of paper showing you have a degree, then it is wrong.
 

Since youre only one man, why not fashion some sort of pulley systen, to help you clear rock quicker?

I'm no pulley expert, but it could definitely lessen your strain.
 

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