Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

[jmckinney1966]

Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

I wanted to get an opinion on a rock carving ( date ) and a tree nearby. I have been Interested in Treasure Hunting for a couple of years and have made a few trips hours from where I live, however this rock and tree are actually besides and in front of my house. I noticed a date on the rock about a year ago. It says 1848, and at first I thought it was an old grave. I went to the court house, tax appraisers office, city officials, local cemetery that is about two blocks away and even the genealogy department at the local library. No one knew of about it or thinks it could be a grave. The earlist grave known in the county is 1854. Rock sets in a small park about 100 feet by 200 feet in the middle of a housing subdivision, yet the city does not maintain it. A lady next door has been mowing the area for the past 20 years, and she hadn't even noticed the date until I pointed it out to her. I think when the area was developed in the late 60's the developer found the date on the rock and to avoid any legal hassells decided to make this area a park and just moved on. The rock sets under three Live Oak Trees in a circle. Their are other rocks on the ground that when lined up point at a 21 degree line in the distance. The large Tree in the pictures is over a 100 years old, ( approx) and the lady that lives there now said lightning struck it back when the whole area was a large farm. I think it has the same look of a bent tree aka KGC. When you stand under the limb of the big tree, it point s directly to the rock, about 50 yards away and you can clearly see the rock from under the limb. This area had one of the first KGC Castle set up by Bickley in around 1860 and has quite a few legends of the James gang and the like. OK, What do you think.... am I reading too much into this or could this be something.

 

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[pegleglooker]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

bump

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

Welcome to Treasure Net!

I dunno... interesting.

You stated: "I think when the area was developed in the late 60's the developer found the date on the rock and to avoid any legal hassels decided to make this area a park and just moved on." Is there any validity to that assumption or are you just guessing?

Do you know how old that tree is?

I am going to assume the developer would have developed the land no matter what some miscelanious rock had carved on it. Just my thoughts. Seems to me that rock would not just be lying there with all the modernization happening all around it - but hey, who knows?

It has all the elements of a interesting mystery... If you posted this in the "treasure signs" area they would have you digging up the hood in a few hours flat!

Good luck on your quest... What if there IS something there?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

Have you spoken directly with the old developer? I cant believe the lady has been maintaining it for 20 years and didnt notice the date or know about its history. Talk to some of the original older neighbors.

Nice clear pics and diagram. It does look as if the developer went out of his way to preserve the little triangle area. Its a pleasure to see such quality photography and layout.

 

[mickk]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

If it was left by the developer, it was on the plan. Your local planning dept will have that bit of land listed and probably the reasons why, a heritage study or similar.

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

When I was a kid I used to like to carve dates in things all over the woods in boredom. Including rocks...

 

[IronSpike]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

I think it's a coincidence that the bent branch points in that direction. As for the stone I do believe it could be an old foundation stone. Location of the stone is very central to road system and may have escaped disturbance by the complex developer from it's 'island point'.

 

[72cheyenne]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

The only thing that looks a little "odd" is the carved date. It looks more "recent". All the carvings I have seen that were say 100+ yrs old all had the patina of the rock. I hope I am totally wrong and you are onto something though. BTW, nice job on the story, photos, and diagrams.

 

[mile-ender]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

What are you waiting for? Don't just sit there staring at it.

 

[jmckinney1966]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

Have you spoken directly with the old developer? I cant believe the lady has been maintaining it for 20 years and didn't notice the date or know about its history. Talk to some of the original older neighbors.

Nice clear pics and diagram. It does look as if the developer went out of his way to preserve the little triangle area. Its a pleasure to see such quality photography and layout.

The developer died in the mid 80's , that is what the lady in the genealogy dept at the libray told me, she knew who he was.
The lady that has been mowing it moved in around 1990 , and her and her husband mow it and water the trees about once a month. I walked over there a couple of months ago and pointed the date out to her and her husband and they both thought i was kinda nuts, but they looked at it and she said, they never noticed it. there are no other dates, signs, symbols etc on any of the other rocks, To me if this were a kid, on they would have picked a slogan, or cuss word or anything but the date 1848. I have lived here all my life and in this house for 10 years, i have never seen anyone out there while i have been here other than people letting there dogs go to the bathroom. The lady at the tax office has it listed in the platt, but no record of who owns it, but mentioned that the developer could have built one additional house on that land but choose not too..


This is in Van Zandt County, Canton Texas

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

I had a bottle once with nothing but 1848 on the bottom.

 

[Old Dog]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

Glad someone had the presence of mind to at least preserve the tree.

 

[mickk]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

I protest!

IMHO the rock is in situ, the carving is old.

The TREES are in situ, you can see where the original tree was and the suckers that have grown to trees. The original tree is gone but what remains are the same stock. I betcha there was on old carved tree once. Related or not, who knows. You have to examine that rock in detail, work out if its local or not, if there are more around the area etc. Where did it come from, are there any more in old fences, barns, houses etc.

 

[IronSpike]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

I'm 50/50 on the date of the carved 1848 whether it's old or more resent There are more large rocks on the 'island', which IMO would support the foundation rocks idea. Then again they could have been placed there for landscaping. I doubt the branch is a marker for this stone. If so wouldn't the bent branch/sucker at the 'island' be the next marker

 

[intimer]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

agree landscaping: if i had this neat rock and a corner i didn't want driven across....
maybe that old tree and that old rock were closer together at one time.

i'd like to say "man that tree is tuff!" as in slang for tough.

then i looked up tuff in the dictionary and found a "hey! i never knew that!"

–noun Geology.
a fragmental rock consisting of the smaller kinds of volcanic detritus, as ash or cinder, usually more or less stratified.

tuff (tŭf)
n. A rock composed of compacted volcanic ash varying in size from fine sand to coarse gravel. Also called tufa.

nothing to do with this rock just interesting-at least i thought so. "oh really! said the rock to the tree"

 

[jmckinney1966]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

I'm 50/50 on the date of the carved 1848 whether it's old or more resent There are more large rocks on the 'island', which IMO would support the foundation rocks idea. Then again they could have been placed there for landscaping. I doubt the branch is a marker for this stone. If so wouldn't the bent branch/sucker at the 'island' be the next marker

Thanks for your input ,,,you know one of the first things i thought off was that it was a landscaping rock,, and the 1848 was the weight, maybe they pay by the pound or something.. but i called a rock landscaping places and they .1. if they weighed a rock before selling it..they would use paint to show the weight not a carving because it would disfigure the rock, second they don't have the resources to weigh all the rocks they get before they sell them, because the customer would make them weigh it again before paying anyway, large rocks too heavy, too much movement with equipment just to weigh something that will be weighed at point of sell again.. but this idea is still in the back of my mind. There are some other large rocks around it, they are set in a circle as well, but this is the only one with any markings at all. Its hard to tell form the picture, but who ever did this was there a while, the marking is deep and well done, this wasn't a kid with a knife, this was a sharp tool and someone took there time.

 

[jmckinney1966]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

I agree with others, that the carving is resent.

The tree branch is similar to the branch directly above it.

thanks for your input.. the branch above it similar, but the large branch is the only one like it for miles,,, and the reason i thought the date was old was because of the growth on the lines of the date, I'm not sure how long it takes to grow moss or what ever it on a rock in Texas, but it is there, below is a close up of the bottom of the 4 and 8

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

Any particular significance to that date?

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

I think the date is old, and I think it was carved for a reason (not children). I also think it's interesting that the big limb points directly to the carved rock. I don't know that it's KGC or any kind of treasure marker, but the possibility would be enough to make ME continue researching.

Have you explored where the line of small rocks point?

 

[72cheyenne]

Re: Help with " Tree Marker and Rock Carving"

I agree with others, that the carving is resent.

The tree branch is similar to the branch directly above it.

thanks for your input.. the branch above it similar, but the large branch is the only one like it for miles,,, and the reason i thought the date was old was because of the growth on the lines of the date, I'm not sure how long it takes to grow moss or what ever it on a rock in Texas, but it is there, below is a close up of the bottom of the 4 and 8

In your first photo it really did look like recent scratchings into sandstone, but the close up does show lichen growing over part of the carving, but in saying that, depending on the growing conditions, lichen can start growing in just a few years to many years, so I don't think that we can use the plant growth for dating. If this is a "authentic" older carving, I don't think the 1848 is the date of the carving.....or it may not be a date at all.