Help with button - Still no ID?

[celtex]

It was found in a sidewalk tear up. Eagle with 30 stars. Back came off when washed. Age? About the size of an American quarter.
Thanks for checking it! A 1903 BarberDime, 188? V Nickle and an IH were dug near this button. Is it military or civilian?

 

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[johnnyblaze]

Re: Help with button

Interesting
Lets see the back please...
Can you increase the resolution on your camera





Blaze

 

[celtex]

Re: Help with button

Intertesting
Lets see the back please...
Can you increase the resolution on your camera





Blaze

Back is gone

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Help with button

Intertesting
Lets see the back please...
Can you increase the resolution on your camera





Blaze

Back is gone

in what way is it gone, a picture WILL help...

 

[Breezie]

Re: Help with button

Intertesting
Lets see the back please...
Can you increase the resolution on your camera







Blaze

Back is gone

in what way is it gone, a picture WILL help...

I'm with Cru; gone as in what kind of gone? When the back came off, did you throw it away? Breezie

 

[celtex]

It was found in a sidewalk tear up. Eagle with 30 stars. Back came off when washed. Age? About the size of an American quarter.
Thanks for checking it! A 1903 BarberDime, 188? V Nickle and an IH were dug near this button. Is it military or civilian?

No ideas yet?

 

[johnnyblaze]

You need to clean that baby a little more..
Drop it in some heated peroxide..
Is there anything in the talons?
Usually there will be some other symbol if it is military..


Blaze

 

[celtex]

You need to clean that baby a little more..
Drop it in some heated peroxide..
Is there anything in the talons?
Usually there will be some other symbol if it is military..


Blaze

Will do. I don't see the customery arrows and branches.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Patriotic blazer button. Modern.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I searched but cant find it.

I don't see the customery arrows and branches.

Try searching Mexican buttons. The Mexican eagle doesnt have arrows or talons but it usually has a snake in its beak.

 

[DirtDigler]

Too big for a snap or overall button. What did the back look like? Standard soldered shank?

 

[ivan salis]

30 stars --one for each state? --now when did the USA have 30 states? ah in 1848 wisconsin joined as the 30th state . -- might be a clue .

humm in 1848 mexican american war was happening *

pre civil war american eagles were often "left facing" --after war right facing was more common.

 

[celtex]

30 stars --one for each state? --now when did the USA have 30 states? ah in 1848 wisconsin joined as the 30th state . -- might be a clue .

humm in 1848 mexican american war was happening *

pre civil war american eagles were often "left facing" --after war right facing was more common.

I was thinking the the 30 stars was a clue as well.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

This discussion has been going on for fully 3 weeks, with no "solid" resolution of it. So, although I do not know for certain what the item's ID is, I think I should contribute my thoughts and observations, in the hope that they might lead to some additional progress toward the item's correct ID.

I notice that the item's face appears to actually be slightly concave ...like a old-style dinnerplate. That made me think of an overalls fastener-stud -- but at the reported size of a US quarter-dollar (.95-inch diameter), it's probably too big to be that. Nonetheless, because its back is torn-open in the way it is, I'm not sure it had a typical button-loop on it.

The item's face needs additional cleaning. Seeing more details of the bird could provide more-definite ID clues. In its current encrusted condition, to me the bird doesn't quite look like a typical American eagle-symbol. For one thing, its feet don't look like those of an eagle.

Also, in its current encrusted appearance, the bird's neck looks much longer than we see on a typical American eagle-symbol ...but that might just be due to the crud between bird's neck and the wing-tops. Currently, its feet and longer neck remind me of a turkey. Cleaning the crud off might show us what we need to see.

Like Ivan, it occured to me when I first saw this item that the 30 stars might be date-significant ...because the number of stars is quite significant in dating US flags ...especially civil war era flags.

I may be seeing a bit of silver-plating (or nickel-plating, or perhaps gold) in the depressed area around the stars -- but I'm not certain about that, due to the heavy encrustaion. Again... more cleaning, please.

If it does have some plating, knowing whether it is silver or nickel-plate will help to date the item. Nickel-plate came into favor as a widely-used substitute for silverplate on buttons (and similar items) in the 1870s/80s ...and ever since ...for two reasons: it is significantly cheaper than silver, and it doesn't tarnish or wear off as easily as silver.

Because Celtex lists Texas as his/her location, I assume the item was found in that state ...which could be relevant to the item's ID. The item indeed might not have an American eagle-symbol, but instead, a Mexican version. Right away, along with the bird's odd feet, I noted the absense of the usual American symbol's typical arrows-&-olive-branch. That being said... on Mexico's National Seal emblem, the eagle is gripping a snake in its talons.

That's all I've got about the item, until we get to see it cleaned-up.

For that, I'd suggest a soak in lemon juice, and then the gentle use of a toothpick on the encrusted areas.

 

[celtex]

Will try to get cleaned up.

It was indeed found in Texas Panhandle, Amarillo to be specific. At the old court house, they were tearing up some sidewalks in the Norh side. It was found with some nice oldies.

 

[Daedalus]

I do not think it has anything to do with the Mexican Army as they do not have any regions or enough regions or states to use the thirty Stars . Although I am not an expert on Mexican emblems .

Also I am wondering if it has anything to do with Spain as they where in control of Mexico for over three century's . One might look farther back in their history to see if this button came off some uniform of the distant past !

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

For clarification, in case it is needed... in my prior post, when I spoke of "mexican," I didn't mean a Mexican Army eagle - which, being on government-issued gear, would have the Mexico Seal's snake in its talons. I meant a "Mexican representation" of an eagle.

 

[celtex]

I did find this description of drooping eagle wings and nothing in talons. And the only buttons I have found with 30 stars were ca 1860.

"The Confederate regulations instated the use of "droop-wing" eagle motif buttons to be wore by all higher-ranking officers/staff officers to signify their prominence and importance. Based more upon British/European styling, they differentiated themselves from the Federal regulation style eagle with wings pointed upwards."

The right facing eagle and long neck does seem to be a more confederate example.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Sorry, but it is definitely not a Confederate-made button. The killer is that absolutely no Confederate buttons have a concave face (meaning, the face's center is depressed, like a dinnerplate).

The quote from the Confederate Regulations describing Army Officer's buttons is accurate ...but in actual practice, very nearly all the varieties of Confederate Officer buttons do have the eagle holding arrows & olive-branch.

Here's a photo showing a typical design of Confederate-manufactured Army Officer's button.

Still hoping additional cleaning of your button will show the eagle's details better.

 

[celtex]

Sorry, but it is definitely not a Confederate-made button. The killer is that absolutely no Confederate buttons have a concave face (meaning, the face's center is depressed, like a dinnerplate).

It was the only reference to the drooping wings and looks like and old CS button I found as far as the ugly eagle. The feet are really ugly on this type of eagle.