help me date a site: button & bullet

[jerseyben]

help me date a site: button & bullet

I need help dating a site I am working. Here are 2 items found on the site that I cannot find a date range for due to my limited knowledge of the items. Found in Southern New Jersey near a Revolutionary War area but, to the best of my knowledge, no Civil War activity.

First is a solid lead bullet. Second is a button with a smooth front and recessed reverse. The shank is not a typical "wire" loop but almost like it was cast into the body of the button?

 

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[worldtalker]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

All I know is they are OLD,Don't really know about the rifling,if it wasn't made that way,but actually fired,COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God Bless Chris

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

Is that a drilled shank?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

Your bullet appears to be a fired civil war era revolver bullet. Its nose has been deformed by the revolver's rammer, leaving the distinctive "compressed" circular groove on your bullet's nose. To give you a definite specific ID, we need to see photos of all of its sides ...and also need you to measure its diameter and weight as accurately as possible, and tell us those measurements. It you do not have a set of digital calipers to measure your bullet's diameter in hundredths-of-an-inch, set the bullet's base on top of a ruler, and post a photo.

The weight is important for ID because there are (for example) several varieties of civil war .44 pistol bullets, but the weight of each type is somewhat different from the other types.

Your 1-piece cast brass button dates from the 1700s to early 1800s. It was manufactured primarily for Civilian usage, with only a comparative few getting used on Military uniforms.

 

[jerseyben]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

Is that a drilled shank?

If you look at this post: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,244212.0.html
Several posts down, there are pics of the shank. My button has the same type of shank.

 

[stefen]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

A geographic location might lead to additional clues...

What if a CW bullet was fired after the war in a place not involved...that would be a false clue...but if the site was located in a known conflict area then the finds may be relevant to the dating process.

Just a thought...

 

[jerseyben]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

A geographic location might lead to additional clues...

What if a CW bullet was fired after the war in a place not involved...that would be a false clue...but if the site was located in a known conflict area then the finds may be relevant to the dating process.

Just a thought...

Found in Southern New Jersey near a Revolutionary War area but, to the best of my knowledge, no Civil War activity.

 

[stefen]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

You need to do some more digging (no pun intended)

 

[ticm]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

I like to date a site by the iron junk I dig up. Like square nails and such.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

Is that a drilled shank?

If you look at this post: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,244212.0.html
Several posts down, there are pics of the shank. My button has the same type of shank.

I think its a cast shank like CBG said. The button and shank were cast together.


Question: How can I tell the difference between this cast shank and a drilled shank?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

BigCyppressHunter, button-collectors and diggers tend to use the term "shank" too broadly/loosely ...which causes confusion. I think a better term for what is on the back of Jerseyben's brass solid-cast button is a "cast-&-drilled" shank. I've seen some pewter solid-cast buttons with a pewter loop (an actual loop) that was cast as part of the button's main body.

I don't think a loop should be called a shank, because their form is quite different ...and the form is quite important for accurately dating Historical buttons. (And also for recognizing Reproductions as such.) An example of that is the repro Loyalist Corps button currently being discussed elsewhere in the What-Is-It forum.

Unfortunately, I'd probably never succeed at getting people to stop calling a "birdcage loop" a "birdcage shank" ...even though the form is actually two loops superimposed across each other.

 

[jerseyben]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

BigCyppressHunter, button-collectors and diggers tend to use the term "shank" too broadly/loosely ...which causes confusion. I think a better term for what is on the back of Jerseyben's brass solid-cast button is a "cast-&-drilled" shank. I've seen some pewter solid-cast buttons with a pewter loop (an actual loop) that was cast as part of the button's main body.

I don't think a loop should be called a shank, because their form is quite different ...and the form is quite important for accurately dating Historical buttons. (And also for recognizing Reproductions as such.) An example of that is the repro Loyalist Corps button currently being discussed elsewhere in the What-Is-It forum.

Unfortunately, I'd probably never succeed at getting people to stop calling a "birdcage loop" a "birdcage shank" ...even though the form is actually two loops superimposed across each other.

Thank you for the info. Do you know the approximate age of such a button with a cast and drilled shank?

Also: Attached some more pics of the bullet in the original post, as requested.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

Thank you for the info. Do you know the approximate age of such a button with a cast and drilled shank?

1700s to early 1800s http://www.artifacts.org/Early Buttons.htm

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: help me date a site: button & bullet

I've seen some pewter solid-cast buttons with a pewter loop (an actual loop) that was cast as part of the button's main body.

I know the type you speak of, with big old pewter loop and mold line. Thanks.