Help identifying what looks to be a buffalo lance? Found in my grandfathers indian artifact box.

[epiccow400]

Hello, ive found this along with all of my grandfathers old indian relics. Ive done a little research and the closest thing i see to it is a buffalo lance? Can one of you guys with more knowledge please give your input? Is it a buffalo lance? Thanks.

 

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[RustyRelics]

I don't know about Buffalo Lance, as most terms like that are fabricated by sellers looking to make a big bang for their buck, but what you DO have is a very rare, and amazing example of a ceremonial blade from a culture that figured out how to make copper objects. Do you know where your grandfather found it, or where most of his artifacts come from?

 

[newnan man]

Welcome, if that is authentic it is an astounding artifact.

 

[dognose]

Very interesting.

What are the dimensions?

When laid on a table, does it lay flat? Any curvature to it?

Using a loop on this, do you see any faint lines?

What is the material? Is it copper, iron? what does a magnet do when held to it?

It could be made from hammered copper as RustyRelics referred to. Or it could be made from a repurposed large file. Or more likely a repurposed wagon wheel band. wagon wheels where made from wood, the hub, spokes and rim. On the outer rim was a band of iron fused together by a blacksmith.

If this is an authentic early historic relic, it could be rare.

I suggest taking to a relic show and get some opinions from others there. Find some locations here https://csasi.org/calendar_of_events_current.htm

I am sure some would give opinions. Take them for what they may be worth. Remember everybody has an opinion on things.

 

[Relicgrubber]

Looks more like a Short Sword than a lance. Pretty cool whatever its origin is.

Thanks for sharing!

Maybe Joshua will chime in on this piece of steel, I feel he is very knowledgeable on stuff like this.

 

[Older The Better]

Hard to say without giving it a good look but from here my first impression is it’s authentic. If so that’s very cool, I’d lean to a trade era item vs copper culture but I also don’t have any experience with copper culture artifacts so I may be biased to trade items.

 

[pepperj]

It looks like it could be made of a bronze/brass material.
The tip is folded back (curled) so it could be of a softer material.
For some reason the design looks more from what comes out of ancient Europe.

 

[newnan man]

Blowing up the pic it looks like the notches were made with a revolving grinding wheel. The handle edge looks that way too. Maybe not real old.

 

[smokeythecat]

Grinding wheels were used her in the 17th century onwards, so a trade item is on the books. Looks good to me.

 

[joshuaream]

A knowledgeable collector/moderator on another forum suggested checking it with a magnet. It looks iron based to me.

Buffalo lances were a historic artifact used by the Plains Indian groups that used horses. Some "fakes" are historic African spears that are simply passed off as Buffalo lances. Others are Spanish relics from Mexico/South America where Calvary troops used lances into the 1900's. Many others are simply decorative items that just look old. And then there are replicas made to deceive, but the higher dollars with historic artifacts tend to come with histories that tie an item to a specific person or to a battlefield. And with historic stuff the organic components are often still present. (Wood, leather, feathers, etc.)

Pinning down historic relics is a specialized area. It's a lot easier to create rust on a piece of iron than it is to create patina on flint, and the experts who know that stuff are typically looking at a lot of small details that I don't really get/observe. (Type of iron/steel, file marks, etc.)

The only expert on both prehistoric and historic items that I've ever known was John Baldwin. Forest Fenn also collected both areas, but he was more of an expert on the historic stuff. The dollar values on the historic stuff can also go higher, quicker than they do for prehistoric things.

 

[Riverbum]

A knowledgeable collector/moderator on another forum suggested checking it with a magnet. It looks iron based to me.

Buffalo lances were a historic artifact used by the Plains Indian groups that used horses. Some "fakes" are historic African spears that are simply passed off as Buffalo lances. Others are Spanish relics from Mexico/South America where Calvary troops used lances into the 1900's. Many others are simply decorative items that just look old. And then there are replicas made to deceive, but the higher dollars with historic artifacts tend to come with histories that tie an item to a specific person or to a battlefield. And with historic stuff the organic components are often still present. (Wood, leather, feathers, etc.)

Pinning down historic relics is a specialized area. It's a lot easier to create rust on a piece of iron than it is to create patina on flint, and the experts who know that stuff are typically looking at a lot of small details that I don't really get/observe. (Type of iron/steel, file marks, etc.)

The only expert on both prehistoric and historic items that I've ever known was John Baldwin. Forest Fenn also collected both areas, but he was more of an expert on the historic stuff. The dollar values on the historic stuff can also go higher, quicker than they do for prehistoric things.

I get the feeling its a Lance point , possibly a Mexican Solider's Lance Point but it might be a little heavy for that(I obviously don't know the weight of that one). I believe your right about it being a possible Calvary solider's. Its said they were so good using those that they could carve their initials into trees while sitting Horseback, that's got to be a little tough when the blade is mounted on a pole, Just speculation on my part.

 

[11KBP]

What part of North America was it found?

The patina on this particular piece and photo in general make it somewhat difficult to ID the material. However, as others have said, it appears it is made of iron rather than copper which would put it in the historic trade period.

If you could post pics of some of your grandfathers other relics it might be possible to narrow down the region where he hunted …assuming they are personal finds.

 

[sawmill man]

Look for hammer marks , any black smith made tools will show slight hammer work , move it around with different light angles, the long sanding grooves on the blade make it iffy for me , but thats just my opinion . im leaning toward a home made dagger , the tang and handle are typical looking file work for a armature knife maker . but thats my opinion. i would still have it looked at.

 

[epiccow400]

Very interesting.

What are the dimensions?

When laid on a table, does it lay flat? Any curvature to it?

Using a loop on this, do you see any faint lines?

What is the material? Is it copper, iron? what does a magnet do when held to it?

It could be made from hammered copper as RustyRelics referred to. Or it could be made from a repurposed large file. Or more likely a repurposed wagon wheel band. wagon wheels where made from wood, the hub, spokes and rim. On the outer rim was a band of iron fused together by a blacksmith.

If this is an authentic early historic relic, it could be rare.

I suggest taking to a relic show and get some opinions from others there. Find some locations here https://csasi.org/calendar_of_events_current.htm

I am sure some would give opinions. Take them for what they may be worth. Remember everybody has an opinion on things.

Hard to say without giving it a good look but from here my first impression is it’s authentic. If so that’s very cool, I’d lean to a trade era item vs copper culture but I also don’t have any experience with copper culture artifacts so I may be biased to trade items.

A knowledgeable collector/moderator on another forum suggested checking it with a magnet. It looks iron based to me.

Buffalo lances were a historic artifact used by the Plains Indian groups that used horses. Some "fakes" are historic African spears that are simply passed off as Buffalo lances. Others are Spanish relics from Mexico/South America where Calvary troops used lances into the 1900's. Many others are simply decorative items that just look old. And then there are replicas made to deceive, but the higher dollars with historic artifacts tend to come with histories that tie an item to a specific person or to a battlefield. And with historic stuff the organic components are often still present. (Wood, leather, feathers, etc.)

Pinning down historic relics is a specialized area. It's a lot easier to create rust on a piece of iron than it is to create patina on flint, and the experts who know that stuff are typically looking at a lot of small details that I don't really get/observe. (Type of iron/steel, file marks, etc.)

The only expert on both prehistoric and historic items that I've ever known was John Baldwin. Forest Fenn also collected both areas, but he was more of an expert on the historic stuff. The dollar values on the historic stuff can also go higher, quicker than they do for prehistoric things.

What part of North America was it found?

The patina on this particular piece and photo in general make it somewhat difficult to ID the material. However, as others have said, it appears it is made of iron rather than copper which would put it in the historic trade period.

If you could post pics of some of your grandfathers other relics it might be possible to narrow down the region where he hunted …assuming they are personal finds.

Look for hammer marks , any black smith made tools will show slight hammer work , move it around with different light angles, the long sanding grooves on the blade make it iffy for me , but thats just my opinion . im leaning toward a home made dagger , the tang and handle are typical looking file work for a armature knife maker . but thats my opinion. i would still have it looked at.

Thank you all for the info, My grandfather found most of his artifacts by seeing them while farming in rural Illinois and in Wyoming, but truthfully this could of come from anywhere as he has a lot of this kind of stuff. Here are alot better photos, it is very magnetic.

 

[newnan man]

I like it & hope it's authentic.

 

[crashbandicoot]

I second Newnan Man!

 

[Relicgrubber]

Definitely a cool relic imo...

 

[11KBP]

A very nice piece.
After seeing these latest images I have no doubt about its authenticity and it could well be a trade lance from the northern Plains.

 

[Rege-PA]

A very nice piece.
After seeing these latest images I have no doubt about its authenticity and it could well be a trade lance from the northern Plains.

I like it, looks to be iron......old iron like a black smith would work. The weathering is authentic, I think it is, what you think it is, an Indian lance. Your Gpa did good, display it proudly.

 

[Older The Better]

Found this in one of my books about trade items I think it looks about right, too bad i couldn’t find an actual pic