Help Identifying civil war bullets please

[ac74]

Hello everyone I am fairly new here and have been an avid relic hunter for a good 20years or so and have,believe it or not,never typed my bullets other than three ringers,round balls,69's etc. but recently have been looking at all of my older finds,some more recent, and have gotten different feedback from fellow hunters so I thought I'd ask the experts,you guys! I have several projectiles untyped by my own lack of research and quickly see a micrometer and scale will be in order for most but hopefully you guys can help with a couple of these! I believe one is going to be fairly common but the other is peculiar and I recently saw an article where several of a similar (shaped for lack of better words) were found I believe they were called CS Gardners with flared bases cast not manufactured and were found in one location I believe. Anyway that's what leads me here to you guys. Both of these were found in NE Mississippi and thanks for the help in advance and hopefully I've provided enough in the pictures for you. Thanks again

 

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[vpnavy]

Until a member(s) jump in - I pulled this from another TN thread...

Civil War Bullet ID Chart (Sep 05, 2013)http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/civil-war/374406-civil-war-bullet-id-chart.html

 

[MidMoTreasure]

First photo appears to be a fired Sharps and second appears to be a fired Burnside. I recommend you invest in a digital caliper to help determine the caliber of the bullets you find. It is a great tool to have when you are trying to ID Civil War lead.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Your first bullet is a civil war yankee generic 3-groove Minie bullet (most likely a .58-caliber) which was fired and tumbled in flight, landing backwards, and the impact smushed the bullet's thin base-skirt outward like the wind blowing up Marilyn Monroe's skirt. See photo of a "more extreme" example of backwards-landing, below. Some collectors call them fired "hat" Minies, because they resemble various hats, such as a hillbilly hat or (as seen in the photo) a Sombrero.

To me, the second bullet's nose looks too pointy to be a Burnside, and Burnside bullets do not have a single narrow groove. It looks like an unfired 3-groove minie whose lower two grooves have been carved off by a bored soldier.

 

[ac74]

The second bullet I found one like it on a different website listed as a unlisted rifle or carbine bullet from early Calvary camps and is similar to a .35 Maynard but much larger. Mine matches the description and photo to a T just need to mic it and hope it mics at .43 diameter which I will find out tomorrow lol and it is a solid base one ring base seems zinc. The first one possibly was a fired bullet that landed backwards but it doesn't show typical markings of being fired like striations or stretch, it looks dropped and cast but closest thing I've seen is the flared based CS Gardners that were cast at Richmond arsenal and inadvertently dropped into boxes and later discarded in the field I can even see where the spru was cut off the nose BUT still a lot of research to do before I could call it that lol wishful thinking on my part I'm sure! Thanks for all of your help because as of now I have more possibilities to explore and hopefully more will be tossed up , keeping all options open for now! Thanks again and any help is better than none!

 

[MidMoTreasure]

To me, the second bullet's nose looks too pointy to be a Burnside, and Burnside bullets do not have a single narrow groove. It looks like an unfired 3-groove minie whose lower two grooves have been carved off by a bored soldier.

Some seem to, or at least have been identified as such.

Image taken from: American Civil War Bullets, Cartridges, & Projectiles

I think with the different arsenals churning out so many different bullets during the war, variations in types abound. Just look at how many Sharps variants there are! Another example, the St. Louis Arsenal's version of the Union/Cosmopolitan carbine bullet contains no grooves and a dimple in the base. Some Starr bullets from St. Louis have also been found with a dimpled base. I have personally found a Burnside here in Mid-Missouri that had a single, thin groove. I know for sure it was a Burnside because I dug it with the disintegrated cartridge.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

MidMoTreasure, thank you for doing the Internet research which found a photo of a narrow-groove Burnside bullet. It isn't shown in the three civil war bullet books I own... M&M, Phillips, and T&T's "Handbook." (I also own RBTR volume 4, the Confederate-bullets volume.)

However, as the website photo shows, on the narrow-groove Burnside, the groove is located MUCH further up from the bullet's base than the groove on ac74's bullet.

At the civil war bullet seller's website you linked, the bullet which matches ac74's bullet is reported to measure precisely .434-inch in diameter. Having a solid base indicates it is for a breechloader, or a revolver... whose bullets always measure .01-to-.02" LARGER than the firearm's caliber. (For example, a .44 Colt bullet typically measures about .46-inch in diameter.) So, a breechloader (or revolver) bullet which measures .434 would be for a .42-caliber firearm. I'm not aware of any .42-caliber civil war breechloaders or revolvers. So, I have to ask, what firearm was ac74's solid-based .434"-diameter bullet made to be used in? Maybe postwar?

I do agree with you, "the different arsenals churning out so many different bullets during the war, variations in types abound."