Help I.D. 1 piece Navy Button

[RELICDUDE07]

Need help can not find this in my button book---No writing on the back of button/13 stars/shield at the anchor....1 piece brass

 

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[Iron Patch]

Did you check under Marines?

 

[RELICDUDE07]

I did ,but the head looks different on this 1----kinda like a duck!unless im looking at it wrong

 

[RELICDUDE07]

I also got a louisiana artillery button -Pelican looking eagle at the site....

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Iron Patch is correct, your button shows the US Marines emblem, not Navy. But there is no EXACT match-up for your button in the Albert button-book or the Tice button-book. So, you've either found a previously-unknown variety, or your 1-piece button is a modern-era civilian clothing "Fashion" button.

Unfortunately, your photos of it are somewhat blurry. At the moment (until you can post several well-focused photos of both sides of it) I lean toward it being a modern-era "Fashion" button, for three reasons:
1- You indicate that you dug it, but it has no oxidation/patina (on either its front or back), which a long-buried brass button should show.
2- It has no backmark, but instead appears to be completely blank/plain, not even a circle on it. ALL of the 1-piece Marines buttons in the Albert and Tice books have some kind of backmark. Repro and "Fashion" 1-piece buttons typically lack a backmark.
3- No exact match-up for its emblem in the Tice and Albert button-books.

Please make and post several well-focused photos of your button's front and back, so we can figure out the mystery conclusively. If it turns out to be a previously-unknown 1820s/30s US Marines button, Warren Tice definitely will want to see it.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Only #5- 1 piece buttons in the book i have-its not 1 of them...I did get a little better pic & can see the head turning down on the bird....May be it is in the Tice book?-the button was found in the Gulf of mexico tide line with a 1/4 inch crust & has been cleaned....

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

In my post above, I said I'd checked every US Marines button in Tice's book, and yours is definitely not in it.

Note these five characteristics:
1- The stars go almost exactly 1/2 of the way around the button's edge
2- both of the eagle's wingtips extend a bit below the stars
3- the anchor is very short-length
4- its top bar's right end is very thick
5- the rope crosses ATOP the anchor's lower shaft from the left going upward.
No Marines button shown in Albert or Tice's book has of all five of those characteristics.

The new, better-focused photo of your button seems to show that the center of its front is "pushed inward," like the button had been stepped-on. If that's correct, it can't be a 1-piece button. Please try to make several well-focused photos of its back, shot from different angles, and post them.

I also need to get a close view of how thick the button is.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

its solid 1 piece for sure----its not my 1st old button

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Thank you for making and posting the well-focused photo of the button's back.

The well-focused photos of the brass 1-piece button's front and back cause me to believe it is a Reproduction, for the following reasons:
1- the button's "uneven" thickness
2- the button appears to be solid-cast brass, instead of stamped-&-pressed thick brass -- I've never seen a solid-cast US Marines button
3- the presence of a brass wire loop which is apparently CAST into the solid-cast brass button's back
4- the apparent "push" in the center of the button's front
5- there is no EXACT match for its emblem in the Albert or Tice button-books

That being said... I am not one of the "experts" who thinks he already knows everything there is to know. So, I will ask Warren Tice to examine it, for his opinion. He and I have consulted with each other in the past. When I get his answer, I will post it here.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Thank you for the Help, also thank Warren for the time...The button does have what looks to be a smashed spot---But the button is to thick & solid for this to happen & not push the back of the button out any.Is what makes me think it was cast this way - The sunk- in part is in the shape of a heart.......or shield

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

In a reply above, I listed five details on your button's enblem which are not found in combination on any of the US Marines buttons in the Albert and Tice books. Today, in an Act-Of-God kind of occurrence, while I was researching Great Seal buttons I came across a US Marines button whose emblem matches with yours in the five details. The only difference I can see is a slight one in the shape of the anchor's flukes. I'll post a photo of it below. It has an 1880-to-1893 Horstmann backmark.

I agree that your 1-piece brass button's sunk-in/pushed-in area should've resulted in a corresponding bulge on its backside. That's why I think it is a solid-cast copy of a 2-piece button.

I phonecalled Warren Tice tonight, and emailed him the well-focused photos of your button. Hopefully he will reply tomorrow after examining the photos.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

That is close-Mine has a different leg --like the older style buttons/turkey leg on the right side-also letters on the 1 i have on the anchors fluke-you can see the( S -center of fluke) in the pic...

 

[fyrffytr1]

I looked at the enlarged picture of your button and there does appear to be the letter s on the stock (cross bar) The fluke is the pointed tip of the anchor.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Thank you fyrffytr1 -yes crossbar-it also has a few more letters but i can not read them & really don't want to clean the button any more..The only reason i cleaned it in the 1st place was the thick crust ..I didn't know if it was a coin or button when i found it..

 

[RELICDUDE07]

This is the best picture my cheap camera will do...

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Any News on the button?