Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

ropesfish

Bronze Member
Jun 3, 2007
1,207
2,046
Sebastian, Florida
Detector(s) used
A sharp eye, an AquaPulse and a finely tuned shrimp fork.
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

I have received a couple of emails promoting this product. I just wondered if this is something new or just a repackaging of something that has been done before. I'll be doing some independent research on their core concepts, but figured I should tap into the expertise available here as well.
SO...here are the emails. I have nothing to do with this product or this company, just soliciting opinions while trying to learn.

Email #1 follows:


Hello,

I'm sending this circular around to answer questions we've received from various quarters requesting more details about BakhtarRadar and how it compares to sub bottom profilers.

1. BakhtarRadar is capable of operation from a rubber boat (such as Zodiacs) on the surface. It can interrogate the water and the sea-floor.

2. BakhtarRadar can detect to 100-ft of water and seabed. A larger antennae would have to be made for greater depth. Then it should be possible to penetrate up to 200 or 300 feet.

3. We work in the MHz regime at "narrow-bandwidths" with "forced-resonance" allowing us directionality of the wavelength and ability to penetrate into the sea-floor at great depth. If the antennae are submerged at one-quarter of wavelength or less, our ability for detection and target visualization is exponentially enhanced.

4. Results are displayed through BakhtarRadar software generated computer tomography (CT) sections with radar trace numbers directly linked to the coordinate system at which the target is realized.

5. In a majority of cases, we can reconstruct volumetric images and 4-dimensional visualization of targets to enhance our ability for discrimination of targets from clutters commonly found in the ocean. Quality of the images can be improved through deployment of a "stabilizer" device commonly used by Hollywood movie productions.

6. These comparative advantages mean BakhtarRadar is far more applicable and field-oriented than sub bottom profilers. It offers:
- higher resolution
- reduced false positives
- surface coordinates for the footprint of the submerged target for subsequent location, verification and volumetric image reconstruction.

7. BakhtarRadar is by far more cost-effective, easier to maintain and has lower operating costs.

Please feel free to share any further comments or questions.

Regards,

David Steinman, BSc. Econ.
Vice President, Development
Bakhtar Associates
Geomechanics - Electromagnetic
Research & Engineering
PO Box 494
Bronxville , NY 10708
U. S. A.
Tel: +1 + 914-237-6533email: [email protected]

Email #2
FYI, I'm circulating some FAQ's that have been asked recently about BakhtarRadar:

1. What are some of the projects you have completed in marine environments?

Most of the work we completed was in conjunction to military and law-enforcement agencies, included, but not limited to: (1) detection and volumetric image reconstruction from plastic and metallic mines laid at the bottom of the ocean along the surf zone; (2) detection and volumetric image reconstruction of mines suspended from the ocean floor; (3) detection and volumetric image reconstruction of a murder weapon (hand gun) in the sea-floor.

2. How does your system compare to the BATHY 1500?


BakhtarRadar works on an innovative concept recently developed in-house and referred to as "forced-resonance" (FR), based on the radar principle as opposed to an "echo sounder" like BATHY 1500. The advantage of using our FR technique is that we can maintain high resolution in MHz regime and still penetrate to greater depth with reasonably small wavelength for detection. In the majority of cases, we can reconstruct 4-dimensional and volumetric images to better discriminate between the target and the many clutters commonly found at the ocean floor. Please note that our output power for ocean/ground interrogation will never exceed 10 dBm (less than 10-mWatt). The energy is forced onto the saline water based on our FR technique, which provides an extremely high signal-to-noise ratio required for submerged target detection.

3. Is it similar to TDEM technology such as the GEM 2?

GEM 2 works pretty much like a magnetometer. Our system can detect both metal and non-metallic targets.

4. Does your system require extensive training? Is it available for lease or purchase?

The technology is available only through a service contract. We would provide our own trained operator(s).

Thank you,
David Steinman, BSc. Econ.
Vice President, Development
Bakhtar Associates
Geomechanics - Electromagnetic
Research & Engineering
PO Box 494
Bronxville, NY 10708
U. S. A.
Tel: +1 + 914-237-6533email: [email protected]
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

there is technology out there that detects plastic mines in fresh and salt water useing GPR.theres a company here in orlando that has a device that does it.i have been talking to them about letting them use my boat as a test bed.just to learn how it works an what it sees,maybe treasure too.normally GPR doesnt even work near salt water.maybe you can ask dell winters if he knows about any of this new stuff.
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

I'm not too well versed in acoustic or EM imaging, so I'll go ahead and ask...What is it about the salt water environment that adversely affects so many detection methods? Increased conductivity, increased reflectivity, both or something that has yet to occur to me?
Any help would be appreciated.
I'm learning as fast as I can! :)
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

Oh Boy!

I had a lengthy exchange with the Bakhtar Radar guy. Here are some observations. .

First of all, electromagnetic radiation i.e. radar, radio etc cannot propagate through seawater. Thats why we use sound i.e. Sonar. The Bakhtar Radar guy claims the system uses some principle called 'forced resonance' which is not documented anywhere, but claims it uses an electromagnetic field of sorts.

At that point, my credibility alarm went off.

I asked them, MANY times to provide some proof that supports their claims. Nothing . . He's interested in leasing out his services at $30,000 a day but doesn't want the equipment scrutinized.

The end result, is they can't provide one single shred of evidence, no published papers, NOTHING to support this 'forced resonance' , nor anything to support his very extravagant claims. And, his claims are VERY extravagant.

My credibility alarm hit the red zone, and I dismissed it.

The only document I could find on this 'technology' or ' fantasyware' is this, which is priceless;

http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...81&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

After reading that paper, I concluded the guy has a form of GPR that doesn't work properly, and he's trying to cash in a $30,000 paycheque based on bogus claims.

Remember, radio waves CANNOT penetrate seawater. He claims otherwise. So . . . ask him to prove it to you. All you will get is a run-around.

Hope that helps
Ping
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

Hey ping, I clicked on your link and got "error 404."
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

There was a long thread on this guy and his ideas which he participated last year sometime, do a search.
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

NASA has a type of radar called SIR-C which is a synthetic aperature radar based in space. It can penetrate through 200' of water to image the sea bottom. They used it to find the ancient buried city of Ur.
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

Hi Scubasalvor-
This Sir-C technology sounded amazing to me, especially the ability to "see" 200' down in the ocean.
Sounded like exactly what was called for in our ongoing
search for ships that broke up in the shallows.
So, I spent a couple of hours on the Nasa/Jpl websites, and there are MANY cool images presented there, lots with coastline and various water bodies.
None of which showed anything below the surface.
I was unable to locate anything in the text (which goes into great detail) stating that this radar can image anything below the surface of water bodies.
Can you direct me, please, to anything from a reputable source that states this capability?
Uh, also, the City of Ur has been known and excavated since the late 1800's.
Thanks
Mike
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

Sorry Mike, I read this 2 years ago and lost the link during a computer crash.
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

Scubasalvor-
Man, I was really hoping I somehow missed the part abou 200' depth capability....sure would be handy.
Oh well, maybe somebody else knows where this info is.
Or maybe it's classified?
Thanks
Mike
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

Sorry again Mike. Like I said, this was years ago and I lost the links in a crash. I know for sure that they found Ur because I saw the archaeologists refer to the synthetic aperature radar as being significant to their location of structure buried under the sand. This was in a recent National Geographic (or PBS) program shown on TV.
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

Scubasalvor-
Hey, I've been trying to read all I can about synthetic aperture radar since this topic appeared, and wow!
it's a spectacular technological improvement on standard radar. I know nothing about this Bakhtar radar, and I'm assuming from the babble posted by it's promoter that it's probably a rip-off scheme.
BUT... if you can get a copy of Sept. 2008 National Geographic, check out the awesome image on page 130 that was generated by synthetic aperture radar BENEATH the sands of the Sahara depicting a network of river courses and detailed bedrock. Now, if we could just get NASA to scan our sand dunes in a a few specific places....hmmmm?
Or maybe they already have. This image in Nat Geo was taken in 1981, from the space shuttle. Wonder how much subterranean scanning has been done in the past 27 years? And can we access the non-classified stuff?
Mike
 

Re: Has anyone heard of "BakhtarRadar"?

Hey Skimmer thats what I was talking about. If it can penetrate under sand dunes, why not through water?
 

[h=2]Re: BakhtarRadar example of volumetric imaging[/h]
I did yesterday speak to Dr Bakhtar about his system. Although I remain not entirely convinced until I can witness the system in operation, there does seem to be something to it. I may have been overly dismissive.

I will re-post here when I get more conclusive information.

Cheers
Ping



Underwater search & recovery consultant
Sonar specialist

 

Re: BakhtarRadar example of volumetric imaging

I did yesterday speak to Dr Bakhtar about his system. Although I remain not entirely convinced until I can witness the system in operation, there does seem to be something to it. I may have been overly dismissive.

I will re-post here when I get more conclusive information.

Cheers
Ping



Underwater search & recovery consultant
Sonar specialist
 

Skimmer, Salvor6

Sirc-C is still a radar based imaging system. When they are looking at the sand dunes, this is using the infra-red and near thermal capabilities, sensing the minute temperature differences translated through the sand, especially great for imaging in the morning hours before the surface warms up.
This system does not 'see' through water.

What can be used to 'see' through water, and down through the sediment is Pulse Compression technology, or CHIRP, which uses SODAR, or sound.

There may be some use of LIDAR for land based operations, as this system uses Light Detection, and has the ability to see down through vegetation and some surface conditions, again, in the near-infra-red spectrums

SIR-C Description
 

Last edited:
Radar would be a microwave technology using primarily airwaves. Water density is an impediment to this. My thoughts on technology for graphing shipwrecks and treasure would be to use a form of nuclear magnetic resonance to detect metal patterns on the ocean floor and form a graphical depiction Using this technology might actually paint an electronic picture of the ocean floor and what lies on it. Of course you would have to do it by grid and sector, perhaps take years, but if you have an idea of the proximity of a treasure you may well locate it using this method. Side scan, of course is another method used.
 

Last edited:

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Discussions

Back
Top