Hammered Silver Buckle That I Can't Identify

paleomaxx

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I posted this a few days ago in today's finds and the more I look into it the more it baffles me. The buckle is copper with a hammered silver finish. Based on the site it's likely colonial (1770-1790's specifically) and most unusually it had two crossbars. There's the intact thick one and then the drilled holes for a smaller rod that's now missing. Does anyone know what this type of buckle would be used for or has seen a similar one dug in the past?

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and most unusually it had two crossbars.

I'm no expert. I think it might be a fancy shoe buckle?...for upper class folk?

I did find a very large/but "dainty looking" shoe buckle frame at the oldest site I ever found in my area. Mine is broken off at one end.

It does have the solid bar off to one side, and then has the pin holes like yours. Mine has fewer fancy designs, and no fancy 45 degree corners.

The red toothpick shows the location of the pin holes. I'm pretty sure mine was ID'd as shoe buckle when I asked about several buckles from that site.

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I think your getting close to something made of gold.
 

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If it's a shoe buckle then it was for Bigfoot. That thing is huge! 4 inches wide!
 

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If it's a shoe buckle then it was for Bigfoot. That thing is huge! 4 inches wide!

I know, right! I found another hammered silver buckle at that site two days before that's a classic Artois style (2.5"x2.5") and I thought that was huge being easily twice the size of the biggest buckle I had found before. But then this one came out of the ground and dwarfed even that one.

I'm totally willing to buy it being a shoe buckle; it's the dual crossbars that are different diameters that's confusing and I would love to see a photo of a complete one in this style to get a better sense of how it worked.
 

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I think your getting close to something made of gold.

I'm really hopeful, this site has been generating enough surprises. It's strange though, because the two buckles I've found here in the past week were fancy in their day and this site is not where I would have expected to find them. It's remote for this area and the house was small even for those days with only one associated structure that I can find. I've also found little else that suggests the inhabitants were well off. Only cheap pewter and copper spoon fragments, few buttons (very plain too), and until the two LCs no coins. I had kind of figured that this was a lower-class farmhouse, but these buckles don't seem to fit that theory.
 

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Does your big buckle show any evidence of being curved like a shoe buckle?


It looks mostly flat in the pics.


If flat and that big, I'm thinking horse equipment of a strap adjuster. I looked for pics but other than the one posted by CTwoods and possibly another on an old Tnet post (presumed to be a shoe buckle), I saw nothing that big.


Do you know anything about the property dwellers? Indentured labor perhaps? And the fancy stuff belonged to the master...
 

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s-l1600.webp

This is the closest I've found and it is 3 1/2 x 3. Also note the extreme curve to fit across the top of the foot.


Did yours ever look like this?
 

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Does your big buckle show any evidence of being curved like a shoe buckle?

Just took a look and no trace of curve and the hammered silver doesn't have any stress marks where a flattened curve would show. It has some natural contours, but only a few mm up and down. Let me get some more photos together as that may help.

Unfortunately not a lot of information on this site. The name on the maps doesn't correspond to any local historical records and this site was actually left off of one of the Beers maps along with the entire road! Until these buckles I thought this was a short-lived civil war-era homestead; built and then abandoned not long after. One thought I had was maybe these buckles are independent of the cellar hole. This is a (very) crude drawing of where I found them in relation to the home site:

Buckles.webp

Maybe the buckles were lost or tossed away by someone using the road years before the homesite?
 

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Does your big buckle show any evidence of being curved like a shoe buckle?


If flat and that big, I'm thinking horse equipment of a strap adjuster. I looked for pics but other than the one posted by CTwoods and possibly another on an old Tnet post (presumed to be a shoe buckle), I saw nothing that big.


Do you know anything about the property dwellers? Indentured labor perhaps? And the fancy stuff belonged to the master...

Matt, the one I showed is just too darn dainty to be for something like a working harness, and it seems way too big to be some sort of sash buckle.

A lot of different shapes of buckles found in areas that were founded in late 1600s to late 1700s; websites seem to give conflicting info on what certain shapes were for. Another nice buckle from my same site is a "half frame batwing". I found one Rev war info site that insists that shape was a "rare" Rev War musket sling buckle and one resides in a Saratoga war museum. Others say it is animal work harness. :)

More new info comes to the internet each year, so I put things aside, and maybe a better answer will show up somewhere.



Just took a look and no trace of curve and the hammered silver doesn't have any stress marks where a flattened curve would show. It has some natural contours, but only a few mm up and down. Let me get some more photos together as that may help.

Unfortunately not a lot of information on this site. The name on the maps doesn't correspond to any local historical records and this site was actually left off of one of the Beers maps along with the entire road! Until these buckles I thought this was a short-lived civil war-era homestead; built and then abandoned not long after. One thought I had was maybe these buckles are independent of the cellar hole. This is a (very) crude drawing of where I found them in relation to the home site:



Maybe the buckles were lost or tossed away by someone using the road years before the homesite?

Just some thoughts from my area: I talked with a younger member of a local 750 acre farm that was first settled/cleared by this family over 300 years ago. He said their family history said they got the land, built a quick log home on dirt. Then spent 7 years living there, while a big permanent barn for feed and livestock was built, and also cleared all the land. Only then, was the new permanent home on a dug/stone foundation built (on a different area, as they still had to live in the log home while building the new one)

My buckle came with literally hundreds of cool artifacts, every type of button/buckle/stoneware frags/early coins dating back to 1726 Reale and slicks including a counterfeit copper that has so much zinc, it is brass color. Almost no glass except a few thick extremely dark olive green pieces. This site "never" had a home, according to all the maps I can find. There are no stones anywhere, maybe house was on dirt, or stones were taken away. It has been a cornfield as far back as locals can recall. But I know it was a home, in use a long time. Just way too many artifacts there, including house things like thimbles

My only point is that we need to keep reviewing each site with a very open mind. Your sketch of the buckles near the stone wall, makes me recall a recent video that reminds us that each time a new stone was tilled up each spring, or popped up in the cart path road, they carried it to a wall. So things like buttons and buckles do pop off in heavy work near walls.

We wonder how a person could not see a lost buckle, until we trudge through 30-40 inch deep snows, or mud season. I recently read that there was a mini ice age in 1550-ish through the 1700s, and that there was even some freak snows in summer, so imagine how deep the winter snows were, to gather wood, feed animals, get eggs/milk and get water and use the outhouse.

I've been trying to locate the missing second homesite in an overgrown pasture here. I found the first one on the first trip. The other site should be due west, less than 500 feet. Much underbrush, but I have hit every place I can, looking for iron signals and keep failing to find it. It took countless trips over a year, to find some sections of the abandoned road through this small 6-8 acre site. Hundreds of years makes our task difficult if we don't know if it was 1600s with no nails and no dug hole, or when it was actually gone. The USGS 1890s maps in my area, missed huge saltbox homes that still exist today! So we work with minefields of dis-info.

I like thinking about all this stuff as much as the hunt...well almost..

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I like thinking about all this stuff as much as the hunt...well almost..

I agree 100%! :hello2: The history that the pieces represent is the best part of the hunt and I almost like it better when I find pieces like this that blow my original theories out of the water.

A bunch of members here have written in passing that many colonial sites didn't have cellar holes and foundation rocks may have been re-purposed years later leaving no trace. I have my fingers crossed that this is one of those sites and the cellar hole that was originally my area of focus is a red herring of sorts. Too bad we're getting 18" of snow tomorrow...
 

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foundation rocks may have been re-purposed years later leaving no trace.

This is true. Years ago I had permission to hunt the property of William West's Ordinary in Loudoun County Virginia. A young George Washington wrote of it in his journal while surveying the county. The stone had been reused to build a nearby cottage is late 1920's. Nothing remains of the original foundation (there was no cellar).

Also near my folk's house in Pennsylvania was a double wheel mill built @ 1750. I can see it in 1937 aerial photos of the area. I spoke to a man whose family construction business had hauled the stones away to build houses in the 1950's. There is no visible evidence of the mill today.
 

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This is true. Years ago I had permission to hunt the property of William West's Ordinary in Loudoun County Virginia. A young George Washington wrote of it in his journal while surveying the county. The stone had been reused to build a nearby cottage is late 1920's. Nothing remains of the original foundation (there was no cellar).

Also near my folk's house in Pennsylvania was a double wheel mill built @ 1750. I can see it in 1937 aerial photos of the area. I spoke to a man whose family construction business had hauled the stones away to build houses in the 1950's. There is no visible evidence of the mill today.


I don't travel very far to detect, due to a variety of reasons. I was starting to give up hope of finding places to relic hunt for 1700s items, as with internet maps, most known public-land homesites are hit pretty hard.

My wake up call came in my own town while looking at Plat Maps to see who presently owns certain interesting looking parcels. One was owned by a State Agency, and it was an unhunted homesite. That home did show on some maps. But the wake up happened by seeing other parcels on that road, and that's how I found my "best site ever" after 15-20 years of off and on, in the hobby. That site is the one that "never showed a home".

So, now I have renewed hope of maybe finding another virgin spot (undocumented/unknown) in the seasons to come. Sure beats thinking that "everything here" is hunted out. Yes, I still can occasionally find a random treasure at the very hammered sites in town, and always will keep trying those very well known cellars...I'm not expecting much from those, but it gets to be a personal challenge to find one last piece.
 

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