Gun Shell of some sort...

[Staci (Fargo ND)]

Hey everyone...I don't have a pic right now but I'll just see if anyone has a clue as to what this is. I was searching in a local park that's been around since the late 1800s and found a rifle (?) shell. It is silver colored with some brownish showing through. It seems to be nickel plated. on the bottom I can make out a 3, an F, and an 89 (or 68?). Instead of having a notched out bottom like other shells do, this one just comes out at the bottom. Here's a pic...not sure if it's helpful :P Thanks!

 

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[packerbacker]

Just a quick reply here in the interest of safety. If the round looks exactly like the picture, it's possible it could still be a "live" primer and potentially hazardous. I'll try to get back to you.

 

[Staci (Fargo ND)]

Thanks for the reply! I thik that won't be a problem as it is completely empty and, as in the pic...the top is broken off. Any ideas on what it could be?

 

[PBK]

.45-70 Govt., 405 grain lead, tinned case & primer, headstamp F 3 89

.45-70 Govt., 500 grain lead, tinned case & primer, headstamp F 3 89

F= Frankfort Arsenal. 3 =month made, 89 = year made.

"The .45-70 and the .44-40 are the oldest centerfire cartridges still being loaded by U.S. ammunition manufacturers, and the .45-70 is the oldest centerfire cartridge still being chambered in modern rifles... After serving as the official U.S. military cartridge from 1873 until 1892, the .45-70 went on to become quite popular among big game hunters. The grand old cartridge might have faded away when Winchester discontinued the Model 1886 lever action in 1935 had Marlin not revived it in the early 1970's by offering it in a variation of the Model 336 called Model 1895."
Source: http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/4570g.html

 

[downindixie]

Staci,what backpacker was speaking of is the primer dead cent of the butt end of the cartridge.It has no indentation on it,this indicates that it has not been fired and therefore still charged and could explode injuring eyes or fingers.

 

[packerbacker]

There are 2 explosive stages to a bullet firing. First, the primer, (That's the small circle on the bottom) is hit by the firing pin causing it to fire. That action sets off the powder in the shell. You can have a shell that has no bullet and no powder but the primer would still be "Live" if it has not been hit by the firing pin. If, for some reason, the bullet was removed from the shell and the powder dumped out, you can still have a good primer. If the primer has been indented by the firing pin, there will be a small indentation on the primer indicating that it was fired. Your picture does not show that indentation. Just an observation.

 

[packerbacker]

try this
If the very small circle is not indented, DO NOT MESS WITH IT!

 

[Staci (Fargo ND)]

Ohh ok guys, I see what you mean now. I was worried for a second thinking I'm sitting at work with something dangerous on my desk! There is in fact an indent on the bottom, so it must have been shot.

Since this is still in use today, I'm trying now to digure out how old it might be. I know ne ammo has a "notch" around the bottom that forms the end...and this one doesn't have that.

 

[packerbacker]

Whew!...downindixie and I can sleep now

 

[PBK]

Since this is still in use today, I'm trying now to digure out how old it might be.

See my post above. The headstamp "F 3 89" identifies it as a government cartridge from the Frankfort Arsenal, dated 3/89, or March 1889.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

*(&^&%^&%&% PBK I had to delete my post sniff\

Tropical Tramp

 

[Staci (Fargo ND)]

Very interesting...my first actualy "find" with my new detector and it's that old! Thanks everyone for your help. Now off to research what it was doing in the middle of the city, and if there are anymore of 'em Thanks again!

HH

 

[djui5]

now if you can find some coins of that era, you'll be "golden"

 

[MiddenMonster]

Very interesting...my first actualy "find" with my new detector and it's that old! Thanks everyone for your help. Now off to research what it was doing in the middle of the city, and if there are anymore of 'em

Several years ago I was using a metal detector I had just bought, and was finding nothing but junk in my yard. A friend who was with me wanted to try it out, so I handed it to him and within 1 minute he found a lead slug from a spent cartridge. The nose had been flattened like it came down on concrete, and he found it about 2" from a sidewalk. To this day I suspect that it was from a gun that had been fired into the air on New Year's Eve or Independence Day.

 

[Monty]

Weird enough, I'm a shooter and reloader and pretty much know my stuff about bullets and such....but the weird part is that I find most of my spent bullets in the chips at kids playgrounds! I guess that's just the right media to test fire guns into? Monty

 

[Bebop]

Here is two that I dug up. Historical note on 45 colt introduced in 1873 by Colt as one of the cartridges for the Peacemaker single action revolver both the cartridges and the revolver were adopted by the U.S. Army in 1875. The U.M.C. head stamp is for Union Metallic Cartridge Co. purchased by Remington in 1911. Historical note on 45-70 cartridges. This cartridges was originally designed for the experimental Van Choate military bolt action rifle made by the Brown Manufacturing Co. in 1872. It is similar to the 45-70 Government, but has a case length of 2.25 in. instead of 2.10 in. It was listed in Remington and Winchester catalogs as late as 1910-1912. The W.R.A.Co. is a Winchester head stamp.

 

[Monty]

To allay your worries, even if the primer was still intact and unless you were to beat on the primer of a live round or burn it, the thing is safe to handle. I can't even think of any one single incident of anyone being injured by a live rifle or pistol round exploding or going off accidentally. They ship thousands of live rounds through UPS, etc. and it isn't even classified as an explosive. Now a live artillery shell is a different story. Monty

 

[sniper19612003]

Could you tell me the length. Don't think I saw anything mentioned about it.

 

[godisnum1]

I found a bullet like yours (I think?) last year detecting... it was W-W 45-70 GOVT issued bullet. Here's mine...

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,110659.msg803273.html#msg803273

Bran <><

 

[Montana Jim]

As a matter of interest... that round was made before ND was a state... North Dakota was admitted to the Union as the 39th state on November 2, 1889, and a State Constitution was adopted in October. North Dakota's first Governor, John Miller of Dwight, took office and the first State Legislature convened at Bismarck on November 19.

Kewl find...