Gun Parts, Brown Bess

lrgcent

Jr. Member
Sep 8, 2010
87
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Tioga County, Pa
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Bess 001.jpgBess 005.jpgBess 006.jpg
Looking for help to identify the lock on this gun, It was found in a wall safe and hasn't seen daylight in 50-100 years! The trigger guard is believed to be from a 3rd model Brown Bess. These photos were sent to me from a friend.
 

Ok I am getting close, Springfield Type 1 1795 lock is pretty close!
 

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Ok I am getting close, Springfield Type 1 1795 lock is pretty close! can any help shrink the photo some?
 

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I can probably help more with a photo of the entire gun from both sides, and I'd need to know what if any markings are on the lockplate, it looks like something is there but I can't read it.

My first thoughts are based on the shape and style of the hammer, and the lock plate it could be a French musket, possibly a Charleville but the trigger guard and sling mount are wrong for that musket, and could have been replaced at some point. Here's a photo, you can see the similarities in the lock and hammer, and also the difference in the trigger guard.... This musket is a 1760's era gun, that was modified in America in the Revolutionary war era.... It's possible that's what your friend has.

View attachment 728880p5010.jpg
 

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From my research it does look alot like a brown bess. The reason I say that is because all models that I saw have a similar trigger but I cant seem to find another trigger guard like the one in the pic. Actually I may have found it. ( File:Brown Bess Carbine.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It looks like it could have had some scrowl work above the trigger. How long is the barrel? I hope this helps.
 

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2nd_model_Brown_Bess_-_lock.JPGThe photo is a Brown Bess lock, note the markings on the lock, and the shape of the hammer, it's a goose neck. The Brown Bess also had all brass furniture, nose cap, trigger guard, ramrod entry pipe, ramrod pipes, butt plate, and the side plate opposite the lock. Your lock looks to me like it might be Harpers Ferry or Springfield. I don't remember well enough anymore to pin that down without lots of research.
 

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harpers ferry.jpgThis is the Harpers Ferry musket model of 1816, and the next one is the Springfield musket model of 1795. springfield.jpg Both of these guns had all iron furniture, but the markings on your lock and these don't match up.
 

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Ok, we believe this is a mixture of maybe even a few guns, 3rd model Brown Bess trigger guard, leaning toward the 1795 Springfield lock. When I get more information like on the length of the barrel and the stock I will post! Thanks!!!
 

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In the photo it looks like your trigger guard is iron. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think that there is any model Brown Bess with iron furniture, at least the Brown Bess's I have knowledge of all had brass furniture. Just because your trigger guard has an acorn finial doesn't make it Brown Bess, lots of other guns have acorn finial's on trigger guards. Nothing about your musket says Brown Bess to me. Your musket might well be a parts gun, but the parts certainly don't appear to be from a Bess. If the trigger guard on yours is brass, then you have a slim case.3rd model bess.jpgThis is a third model Brown Bess lock. Note the difference. See how rounded the lock plate and hammer are. b b lock.jpgThis photo is a close up showing the markings on the lock, and all B. B's have those marks, and the next picture shows the standard brass side plate used on all models of Brown Bess. BB_sideplate.JPG And finally, this is a brass trigger guard on a 3rd model Bess. bess3trigd.jpg There are lots of other identifying features of a Brown Bess, but you would have to show the entire gun for those to be seen. Even though made in India, before interchangeable parts, these guns were still pretty standard. Take a flat piece of brass, put some oil on the lock and use the brass to scrape the excess rust off the lock plate so you can see the markings. That won't ruin the value of the gun at all, anything else will. Most anything you do to the gun will cause the value to go down. Wash it with soap and water, oil it, use a good quality, NON PLASTIC base oil on the wood, like linseed or tung oil, NOT varathane or spar varnish. Use light machine oil on the metal. NO WIRE BRUSH, remove rust with oil and a brass scraper. If there is an elephant stamped on the lock plate, you will make me eat my words, but right now I can't see Brown Bess on anything you are showing.
 

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Sorry about the photo's and the age and patina on this gun but the trigger guard is BRASS!!! Waiting for the owner decide what to clean, when I get more I will post.
 

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With antique guns like this that have a bit of flash rust and crud on them, I like to wipe them down with a clean terry cloth wash rag and mink oil. It'll take the rust and crud off and also protect it from rusting any more than it is and it won't do any damage to the wood or steel. for hard to reach places, a very soft toothbrush will work wonders.

I'd still like to see the entire musket, and if there are any markings on the top of the barrel, the butt plate, or stamped into the stock, also if that is writing under the pan it would help greatly to know what it says, even just partially.
 

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Looks like you're well on your way, here's where I id'd my BB parts, Good luck!
Bess

Note that on the NRA site all the lock plates are rounded, and all the hammers are goose necked and rounded. They do not resemble the lock on lrgcent's musket in any way, and just because a trigger guard has an acorn finial doesn't mean that it is a Bess part. I want to see the rest of the gun. If there are indications that it was made in India, like an elephant stamped into the lock plate, then I want to see the rest of the gun before saying more. Right now my bet would be Harpers Ferry or Springfield.
 

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harpers ferry lock.jpg T Net lock.jpg Here's a picture of a Harpers Ferry model 1803 rifle and a picture of lrgcent's lock, and lrgcent's lock matches the rifle lock way better than any Brown Bess.
 

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PLEASE read from the beginning of my thread about the LOCK, I already mentioned it was not a BB in my second post and its probably a Springfield lOCK, I only said the trigger guard was BB! I said it was a parts gun!!! Jeeeze & Thanks
 

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lrgcent said:
PLEASE read from the beginning of my thread about the LOCK, I already mentioned it was not a BB in my second post and its probably a Springfield lOCK, I only said the trigger guard was BB! I said it was a parts gun!!! Jeeeze & Thanks

Do you think it could be a prussian rifle from the revolutionary war thats been refitted? I know they had allot of elaborate metal work on their weapons. It could be from a Prussian mercenary
 

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lrgcent said:
<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=728750"/><img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=728751"/><img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=728752"/>
Looking for help to identify the lock on this gun, It was found in a wall safe and hasn't seen daylight in 50-100 years! The trigger guard is believed to be from a 3rd model Brown Bess. These photos were sent to me from a friend.



image-3785702183.jpg

Do you think its a Prussian mercenary rifle from the revolutionary war?
 

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PLEASE read from the beginning of my thread about the LOCK, I already mentioned it was not a BB in my second post and its probably a Springfield lOCK, I only said the trigger guard was BB! I said it was a parts gun!!! Jeeeze & Thanks
LC,
I can understand some frustration, but remember that people are trying to help you here.
You could certainly have gotten your point across without the '!!!! Jeeeze'
Remember, "Smiles Everybody, Smiles"
 

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The Harper's is close, but the frizzen and the pan are different, also the back end of the lock has a slightly different shape. The trigger guard does look like a Brown Bess.
 

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