Ground Balancing.....Important??

[bobm31]

Quote:
Originally posted by bobm31
How important is it to have a grounding balancing metal detector? I have an Ace 250 and it does not have this feature. Garrett told me to just turn the sensitivity down to minimize the effects of mineralized soil. Is this what the ground balance circiut does?


When I posted this topic (on another forum) I wanted to know (1) how important is it to have an "adjustable" (either "manual" or "automatic") ground balance and (2) if in adjusting ground balance, are you reducing the sensitivity?

I got a lot of discussion on "automatic", "pre-set", "filxed", and "manual" ground balancing. I found out from Garrett that the ACE250 has "factory pre-set ground balance" which is "fixed"; however, I did not get a definitive answer to my TWO questions.

Does anyone know the answers?

 

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[jays_onit]

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this mite give you a lil more inside.

 

[hollowpointred]

to my understanding, adjusting your ground balance helps the detector to more efficiently "see" through heavily mineralized soil,thus increasing depth. i believe it works independently of your sensitivity controll. in fact you should be able to increase sensitivity while still remaining stable. the set ground balance on our ace 250s will work well in most conditions. i have only had trouble a few times. when i run into problems with mineralization it usually happens when I'm trying to pinpoint. maybe you have noticed from time to time when you try to pinpoint something with your ace and it kind of nulls out on you.that is the mineralization in the soil messing with the ace. its debatable how usefull manual and auto ground balance actually is but when i buy a new machine it will be one with adjustable ground balance.(just my preference).

 

[ZumbroKid]

I've never given this any thought when out hunting. I just turn it on and go.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I've never given this any thought when out hunting. I just turn it on and go.

Hey Free: Seeing you have found some of the most impressive finds ever posted here I think we ought to listen to you and do likewise.

For the rest of us: As for the GB thing, there are so many variables and unproven concepts in this thing it's basically a dead-end street. I think the major detector designers have it pretty straight, but out on the street it's another story.

Well, good luck to all as you "settle" this issue.

I'll just add this final comment--remember this issue has the power to destroy a 50 year marriage if both partners take opposing views.

 

[hollowpointred]

I've never given this any thought when out hunting. I just turn it on and go.

out of curiosity,which machine are you hunting with free?

 

[ZumbroKid]

I hunt with a mxt, before that a radio shack model. Have never had problems with ground balance like some claim. It has been turn on and go from day one of my detecting. Could this be a hoax by manufactors against their competitors? This thought has never been posted here before. It is a dog eat dog world when it comes to the almighty buck. Bigger is better, bigger costs more. Or so they claim.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I hunt with a mxt, before that a radio shack model. Have never had? problems with ground balance like some claim. It has been turn on and go from day one of my detecting. Could this be a? hoax by manufactors against their competitors? This thought has never been posted here before. It is a dog eat dog world when it comes to the almighty buck. Bigger is better, bigger costs more. Or so they claim.

Well stated!

The VLF machines have done a great job but until a totally new system comes along we're going to have these kinds of discussions.

I believe Whites, Fisher, Tesoro, Garrett, etc., all make supreme machines that have pretty much maxed-out VLF capabilities. Some brand or model might get an inch or two more depth but in the process stability or speed may be sacrificed.

Here's the bottom line: Mineralization screws up depth. The higher the metallic substance content in the soil the less depth. One THer posted on another forum that he tried an adjustable GB machine at a high mineral content site and didn't get the depth he did with a fixed GB machine. Was he lying? How would I know? I'd have to buy another machine and carry the darn thing with me and double check targets.

Personally I believe what he posted. I think the adjustable GB thing is the wrong way to go for most hunting situations.

I'm betting that if a factory fixed GB machine loses 33% depth in extreme mineralized soil the adjustable GB machine will also lose 33% (or nearly so).

Like free was saying, the VLF story the last 10 years or longer has pretty much been the old gimmick game with the THer paying the bill.

 

[hollowpointred]

I hunt with a mxt, before that a radio shack model. Have never had? problems with ground balance like some claim. It has been turn on and go from day one of my detecting. Could this be a? hoax by manufactors against their competitors? This thought has never been posted here before. It is a dog eat dog world when it comes to the almighty buck. Bigger is better, bigger costs more. Or so they claim.

I

Well stated!

The VLF machines have done a great job but until a totally new system comes along we're going to have these kinds of discussions.

I believe Whites, Fisher, Tesoro, Garrett, etc., all make supreme machines that have pretty much maxed-out VLF capabilities. Some brand or model might get an inch or two more depth but in the process stability or speed may be sacrificed.

Here's the bottom line: Mineralization screws up depth. The higher the metallic substance content in the soil the less depth. One THer posted on another forum that he tried an adjustable GB machine at a high mineral content site and didn't get the depth he did with a fixed GB machine. Was he lying? How would I know? I'd have to buy another machine and carry the darn thing with me and double check targets.

Personally I believe what he posted. I think the adjustable GB thing is the wrong way to go for most hunting situations.

I'm betting that if a factory fixed GB machine loses 33% depth in extreme mineralized soil the adjustable GB machine will also lose 33% (or nearly so).

Like free was saying, the VLF story the last 10 years or longer has pretty much been the old gimmick game with the THer paying the bill.

well..........this could be true,stranger things have happened. like zeb said, until someone does a comparison we may never know for sure.

 

[Monty]

Well, now you guys got me to thinking and that's dangerous. The more I think about it, the more I think a manual ground balance capability is only effective on a detector with a "turn on and go" feature if you only hunt in the all metal mode! Let's take specific examples. First there are two types of auto or preset ground balance. The ACE 250 is a preset ground balance that stays preset the same all the time. Whereas my GTI 2500 has an auto ground balance feature which constantly changes with the ground conditions. It automatically seeks and supposidly finds the correct ground balance as I go. Ditto my BH Land Ranger. On the BH you even have a little dial that lets you watch the machine seek and reset the ground balance from one spot to another. Both machines that have this seek and find ground balance also has a manual ground balance capability. But, when you manually set the ground balance you are in the all metal mode! Once you switch over to the turn on and go mode the detector starts seeking and finding the correct ground balance all over again, thus wiping out your manual adjustment!
Assuming my theory is correct, then what advantage would a manual ground balance have? The answer would be "none", unless you are hunting in the all metal mode and seeking specific targets such as gold nuggets in highly mineralized ground or perhaps you are looking for ferrous objects like cannon balls or iron based relics of some type. Does that make sense?
Again being case specific, last summer I was having a problem wth my GTI 2500 in "black sand" encouintered in strips along a beach. The machine experienced an "overload" where the static was so loud it was impossible to pick out specific targets. Manual ground balancing seemed to cure the problerm. Then I discovered I was having detector problems as it started overloading even on just junky areas. So, there went that solution! It only worked because the damn machine was broke! Well, I got the detector fixed (new coil cable and recalibrated). Was looking forward to testing it out and UPS broke it in shipping! (sigh). If that beach wasn't so hard to get to I'd try it with my BH. But it is pretty remote and hard to access.
So, where am I going with this? What I am thinking is that a manual ground balance feature isn't such a great deal unless you ,1. Hunt in the all metal mode and, 2. Unless you are seeking specific targets. Someone tell me where I am going wrong here! Monty

 

[hollowpointred]

interesting post monty.i cant speak for any other machine than the ace 250 but it seems the ace 250 would benefit by having manual ground balance in the pinpoint mode since it is an all metal mode. other than that if your logic is correct ( and it seems plausible),it may not help much in the other modes...............who opened this can of worms anyway!! lol!!

 

[Monty]

On the ACE 250 your all metal mode and your pinpoint mode are actually two seperate modes! In the pinpoint mode, the coil doesn't have to be moving to locate the target but in the all metal mode the coil still has to be in motion to identify a target. Isn't that right? So that's something else to consider. I think the auto " seek and set" ground balance feature would be a tremendous asset for the ACE 250. But then it wouldn't cost just a couple hundred bucks! The problems the ACE 250 has with saltwater beaches (most common complaint?) is caused by the ground balance being on a fixed setting continuously..... I think.? Any other opinions? Monty

 

[TXKajun]

I think the manufacturers need to make the ground balancing and programming on the higher dollar instruments more complex!! WAY more complex, in fact! And they need to add lots more programming ability to the higher end detectors. That way, while all the folks with the fancy, expensive, programmable detectors are fiddling with ground balancing, trying different programs, adjusting their machines, rebalancing, etc, I'm gonna be detecting and raking in the finds with my Ace 250!! LOL

Seriously, though. This topic is new to me...and very interesting. I'd also like to see more on programming the advanced detectors. I'm still pretty new at this metal detecting stuff and started off with an Ace 250. I was considering moving up to one of the fancier detectors, but after reading this thread and several others, I'm leaning more and more to just keeping my little Ace 250 and working with it. Over the past month and a half that I've had it, it seems to work better and better....or maybe we're just learning each others' language. Also, I find my interest is leaning more and more toward simple coin shooting rather than more exotic forms of detecting (but I've still got a couple of leads on some serious treasure I'm researching!!). Fortunately, no one's twisting my arm to get a better, fancier detector, so I can take plenty of time to consider moving up or staying with my Ace.

Anyway, HH, ya'll!