Grosvenor castaways

[protea]

I am looking for any kind of informations about the Italian seamen who were on the East Indiaman Grosvenor that sank on the 4 August 1782 on the Wild Coast (South Africa).
So far I have been able to find only the names: Barchini, Bianco, de Lasso, Feancon, Chircanio, Nardini, Pandolfo. Paro.
Thank you very much

 

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[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Protea,

You listed "Pandolfo" is this the same person spelled" Pandolpho"? He and Barchini swam towards shore, with ropes, and Padolpho made it but Barchini was lost.

It is spelled Padolpho in Taylors', "Caliban's Shore."

have a good un............
SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS

 

[old_trader]

DATELINE :- 4th September 2000

GROSVENOR DIVED

?5m treasure ship uncovered off South Africa
The wreck of the long-lost East Indiaman Grosvenor, laden with treasure believed to be worth nearly ?5 million at today's prices, and sunk in 1782 on South Africa's Eastern Cape, has been discovered and dived, writes Kendall McDonald.
Cape Town archaeologists led by Jonathan Shaftman, with a team of Hungarian divers, secretly excavated the wreck for some months. Proof that it was the Grosvenor was provided by their discovery of a brass plaque bearing the name of Col Edward James, who was on the original passenger list. The South African National Monuments Council has officially accepted Shaftman's site as that of the Grosvenor.
Minutes after news of the find broke, claims to a share of the gold and silver coin aboard poured in. First in was Mpondombini Sigeau, King of Pondoland, where the ship broke up on offshore reefs. He is demanding that all recoveries be handed over to his kingdom.
Among other claimants are a couple who hold a certificate issued in 1921 by one of the dozen earlier treasure-hunting expeditions, entitling them to a share.
The Grosvenor, a square-rigged frigate of 729 tons, was carrying 150 passengers and rich cargo from Ceylon to England. Though 138 people survived the wrecking, only six made it on foot to Cape Town after attacks by natives.
The cargo included 720 gold ingots, 19 chests of diamonds, rubies, emeralds and sapphires, gold, silver and copper coins worth over ?1 million. The rumour later grew that the gold- and ruby-studded Golden Peacock Throne of Shah Jahan, the Mogul emperor, had been aboard, though this is nowadays discounted.
The exact spot where the vessel disappeared under the sand had long been debated. Admiralty salvage divers in 1840 were said to have reached it and tried to get into the holds before being driven back by the huge surf.
Many expeditions tried unsuccessfully to beat the surf, digging tunnels, using dynamite, dredgers and divers (at least one of whom was killed), building a mole and sinking a cement-filled ship as a breakwater. They raised only a few cannon and 800 little gold coins, most of those picked up along the beach.
Now divers have found 12 of the original 26 cannon under feet of sand in water only 5m deep, and only 70m from a tunnel dug in 1921.
Using a modified diamond dredge, they have already sucked up Spanish gold and silver coins minted in Peru, Indian coins, musket trigger-guards, buttons and a brass hairbrush. Half of this and other material has been sent to the East London Museum, which under the terms of an excavation permit from the South African Natural Heritage Resource Agency allows the other half to be retained by archaeologists. There is already talk of a world tour to exhibit the finds.

 

[Cablava]

I should think there would be a partial crew and passenger list if not a complete on in the East India Records in london. I have read many different numbers as to how many people were actually on board. Good luck

http://www.bl.uk/collections/iorgenrl.html

 

[Cablava]

Somewhere to start


The Honourable East India Company
Infosheet no. 7



Introduction
The Honourable East India Company (HEIC) began as a small trading venture at the close of the 18th century and prospered rapidly. For most of its existence it enjoyed a monopoly of trade with India and China, and during the 18th century it virtually accomplished the military conquest of India. Not until after the Indian Mutiny did the government of India pass from the company to the crown. The HEIC established a vast bureaucratic rule over the country and it maintained, in addition to its marine service, a large standing army and even a small navy.

The East Indiamen, as the merchant ships were called, were the largest merchantmen of their day. Heavily armed to defend their valuable cargoes, they were sometimes mistaken for warships. Only a few were owned by the HEIC; most were chartered by their owners who were consortia each led by an influential merchant or gentleman known as the Husband, who had the 'right' to charter ships to the HEIC at a most advantageous rate. The shareholders might consist of a couple of merchants, someone from nobility, the Master, the shipbuilder and the sailmaker. Involvement in the HEIC was common among the British nobility and many of the officers were gentlemen; some were even titled. Command of the East Indiamen could make a captain very rich.

Many of the East Indiamen were built in London to the highest of standards then known for merchant ships, but many of the Husbands also had smaller ships built in India for local trade, and a number of these enjoyed long lives as convict ships and emigrant carriers. Some of the regular East Indiamen were chartered as convict ships.

After 1833 the HEIC ceased to operate a merchant fleet and the Indiamen found it hard to compete in other trades. They were succeeded first by the faster Blackwall frigates and then by the clipper ships.

Researching the HEIC

Sources include the HEIC collection as well as Government of India Records between 1858-1947, held within the Oriental & India Office Collection at the British Library:

Oriental & India Office Collection
The British Library
96 Euston Road, London, NW1 2DB
Tel: +44 (0)20 7412 7676
Fax: +44 (0)20 7412 7609
www.bl.uk/collections/resres.html

The collection contains log books, crew lists, records of officers and captains, reports of courts of inquiry, miscellaneous letters relating to the officers and ships, records of cargoes, and basic details of vessels, losses, pensions, etc.

In addition to the marine records, mostly filed in the L/MAR series, the collection contains records of civil servants, and military officers, muster rolls for the army, official minutes, despatches, letters, registers of births, marriages and deaths, books, maps, manuscripts and newspapers.

The newspapers in the collection are held on microfilm. Published at Madras, Calcutta and Bombay, they record the arrival of ships and the names of passengers who disembarked. It should be noted, however, that only those passengers deemed to be of 'reasonable standing' would be listed in the arrivals!

Details of births, marriages and deaths; entertainment on offer; executions; reports from London, and a great deal of general gossip, are also to be found. If an issue is missing it is possible to locate articles in subsequent issues of newspapers from the other titles. Important/interesting news items tended to be printed in all of the newspapers.

The National Archives (formerly Public Record Office)
Ruskin Avenue, Kew, Surrey, TW9 4DU, UK
Tel: +44 (0)20 8876 3444
Email: [email protected]
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk



The Public Record Office holds official records, principally from
1787 when the Port of London annual registers commence. These provide names, addresses and shareholdings of the owners, details of the vessels and names of the masters. From 1825 the transcripts and transactions give even more detailed information.

Guildhall Library
Aldermanbury, London, EC2P 2EJ, UK
Tel: +44 (0)20 7332 1868/70
Textphone: +44 (0)20 7332 3803
www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/leisure_heritage

The Guildhall Library houses the Lloyd's Marine Collection, part of the archive of Lloyd's of London. This collection includes the shipping newspaper Lloyd's List, which provides a useful source for the HEIC period. Published from 1740 it records arrivals and departures, speakings, casualties and captures.

The library also contains the Gentleman's Magazine and The Times, both of which give information about the HEIC including selected births, marriages and obituaries. The Times printed French accounts of the capture of notable English merchantmen as well as warships.

National Maritime Museum
Park Row, Greenwich, London, SE10 9NF
Tel: +44 (0)20 8858 4422
Fax: +44 (0)20 8312 6632
www.nmm.ac.uk

This vast collection includes a great deal on the HEIC including journals, and the photographic collection has a number of negatives of East Indiamen.

Suggested reading

Hardy's Register of Ships 1760-1833
Contains brief voyage details, a list of officers, pursers and surgeon for each voyage, records of losses and captures, and a great deal of useful information on uniforms, freight rates and the rules of the HEIC as they affected the merchant service.

Ships of the East India Company
Rowan Hackman
Historical information on the ships of the HEIC and also licensed ships.

Lords of the East
Jean Sutton
Published by Conway Maritime. The most recent study of the HEIC, it concentrates on the organisation of the company and focuses on a few voyages, rather than giving ship histories. The bibliography is excellent.

History of British India
Sir WW Hunter
History up to 1708.

Trade in the Eastern Seas
CN Parkinson
Covers 1793-1813.

The Old East Indiamen
Keble Chatterton
A general account, but a good introduction and strong on atmosphere.

East Indiamen: the East India Company's Maritime Service
Sir Evan Cotton
Also an analysis of 100 voyages to and from China performed by ships in the Honourable East India Company's service by Henry Wise.

 

[protea]

Thank you very much for the informations. I have Taylor's book "the Caliban shore"but I am trying to go back to the original surnames. I also have the Grosvenor's list of the passengers and the crew but I am not able to find anything more.
Protea

 

[conqistador]

This story is the best example,how GREEDY are all goverments of the world.More then 200 years lying in the water,nobody had interest for ship,but after recovering everybody want everything precizious.Nothing more.I really dont know how important for archeology are not cutted diamonds,gold bullions etc.We are build up society,of free peoples,but goverment are more free.You cant this,or this,goverment can.Our rules and law
about treasure hunting aren t fair,because it doing goverment. Nobody wants accept fact a many historical pieces are known due treasure hunters.Up to me ,treasure hunting is job same as a other and must to be free.

 

[Lulubells]

I have just come a wiki article, and upon further enquiry, a book link on
the Wreck of Grosvenor and an article in a past paper with the header "A
Sea Tragedy- Evening Post, Volume CXIII, Issue 77, 1 April 1927, Page 4".

The story of which you speak is one I know very well; it has been passed
down my family for generations, we visit the shore of the crash yearly to
celebrate the arrival of our forefathers in that very crash.

My mother's side of the family is Hogan, an Irish man by the name of
Hogan was onboard that ship wrecked. He was taken in by the Xhosa community
along with many others. They married in to the "bantu" tribes as you call them and were fully accepted as members of the
tribes with all privilages and rights as any other and have left behind a
legacy. The name Hogan still continues with many of my family and their
story is passed down religiously.

Many survived and CHOSE not to return to their countries.

Upon seeing these articles, I just felt compelled to give my 2 cents worth,
there is so much more to the story than the brutality illustrated. The story
we are told is one of love and adventure, colour-blind and humorous. They
were even given clan praise names identifying them, their arrival, habits
and character. I am sorry to bombard you with all of this but it is very
exciting; my predecessors were affectionately teased for milking buck and
using pipes as cutlery, also for constantly saying "Molo" before they
understood the Xhosa language.

My family still lives in the very same land they crashed on in a place
called Lusikisiki and in neighboring Port St Johns in the Eastern Cape. There were many survivors, whose decendants
live among us.

If anybody is searching for the Hogans who were on board, please contact me, we can provide information
relating to whom they married, how they lived and passed etc.
Kind regards,

 

[tim coxon]

i havent been on this site for a few years but as you may recognize from my name Tim Coxon , i am the great great great grandson of John Coxon ,the captain of the grosvenor ( lets not get into who was at fault for the wreck\\\0 but i have a lot of info on the wreck and own part share in the cottage at the wrecksite ,so all very interesting