Griffin Research site

wreckdiver1715

Bronze Member
May 20, 2004
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Satellite Beach
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Minelab Excal 1000
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All Treasure Hunting
Oldest sailing vessel on Lakes was lost in 1679
BY CRAIG MCCOOL
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CHARLEVOIX — He was the first European to sail a ship on the northern Great Lakes, and also the first to lose one.
The Griffin, a primary ship of the French explorer La Salle, is thought to have disappeared in a storm in northern Lake Michigan in the fall of 1679.
A Great Lakes treasure hunter who thinks he's found it wants to stage his archeological operation in Charlevoix.
City leaders have been asked to provide dock space this summer so crews, including scientists from the Chicago Field Museum of Natural History, can do research. It could be an important discovery, said Scott J. Demel, the Field Museum's adjunct curator in anthropology.
"If this is the Griffin, it's certainly significant," said Demel. "It's what we consider the oldest sailing vessel on Lake Michigan and one of the oldest in the Great Lakes."
La Salle — his full name was Rene-Robert Cavalier, Sier de La Salle — was commissioned by France to establish trade routes along the Mississippi River. One of his support boats was the Griffin, or "Griffon" in French. It set sail from present-day northeast Wisconsin on Sept. 18 1679, and was never seen again.

Steve Libert, an avid diver, treasure hunter and president of the Great Lakes Exploration Group, discovered a wreck in 2001 he suspects could be the vessel. But research has been on hold for more than a year while Libert and the state battle in federal court over ownership rights.
The dispute is far from settled but the two sides have recently agreed to continue with research — though not salvage — operations.
"We've agreed to have the investigation go forward to determine definitely whether the shipwreck is the Griffin," said Rick Robol, Libert's attorney.
Charlevoix, where Libert owns a summer home, could play a role. Libert is planning a fund raiser there this summer, hosting an event with his team and visiting French scientists to attract publicity and to "help promote sponsorships and endorsements for the expedition," according to his request to the city.
He has asked to use one boat slip for about a week in July.
Charlevoix resident and former mayor Josh Barnes was asked by the city to meet with Libert and gather information. Barnes wrote a recommendation letter to city leaders noting the research could "bring world-wide publicity" to the town.
"They'd be crazy not to" provide the requested dock space, Barnes said Monday.
Demel said scientists would conduct sonar and other surface tests at the wreck site. It's in the mouth of Green Bay, about 70 miles west of Charlevoix.
"It's an exciting project. It may turn out to be nothing. It might turn out to be a much more recent wreck, but there's only one way to find out," Demel said.
Libert could not be reached Monday. His wife Kathie said her husband wants the wreck preserved.
"He would love to see it go into the Chicago Field Museum, because it's centered on the lake. That would be his number one wish," she said.
 

What a beautiful place. I lived in Charlevoix for three years. That was my first tour in the Coast Guard. Looks as though they will have plenty of space to moor a boat now that they are decommissioning the CGC Acacia on July 7th. Right downtown at the city dock!!
 

The news showing poverty island site indeed. Still hard to imagine, (for me) that if one account of it i read is correct it took a month or more for La Salle to get word of her fate from the natives with site being examined so close to last departure, stranger things have happened though and i have only best wishes for those pursuing confirmation.
 

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Used to boat up there and talk with locals. I've SCUBA'd up there on Poverty Shoals, looking for the civil war treasure chests (although I'm not sure anyone believes that story).

The area is big, but it's hard to believe that the local fishermen back through the 1800s didn't know about this net snag.

On the other hand, a lot of them used "Norwegian anchors", cross pegged oak timbers with 4 pegged in poles with limestones inside to anchor the nets.

image002.jpg

Cheap and easy to make and employ, why would you have bothered to try to pound this thing in the lake bottom 50 feet down? I've seen net poles, but most have been in shallower water where they're a navigation hazard, how well I remember. Seeing these in the bottom of a 12 foot wave trough as your boat bottom slides down towards it gives one the willies.

So, what is this? And why isn't it being carbon dated instead of dendroed?

And why is the French Government acting like the Spanish Government in Florida? Do they really think that being like that will re-establish a French colonial claim to the US? Maybe this is an example of archaeologists trying to do diplomacy.
 

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Bum Luck:

Others are welcome to prove me wrong on this one, but I think carbon dating will only disclose the age of the wood itself. No the object made from the wood.

The story of Le Griffon is fascinating - the Holy Grail of Great Lakes shipwrecks!

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

PS: I agree with you about the Poverty Isle treasure. However, the story of Chicago Fire loot buried up near Traverse City...
 

releventchair:

If you are interested, you can never go wrong reading Francis Parkman! Hennepin's account is, I believe, the foundation of all the subsequent versions. I believe, however, that was written in French.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo
 

Bum Luck:

Others are welcome to prove me wrong on this one, but I think carbon dating will only disclose the age of the wood itself. No the object made from the wood.

The story of Le Griffon is fascinating - the Holy Grail of Great Lakes shipwrecks!

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

PS: I agree with you about the Poverty Isle treasure. However, the story of Chicago Fire loot buried up near Traverse City...

You're right, but the wood for the Griffon was likely pretty fresh - no lumber yards back then.

I used to know where the Poverty Island lighthouse log book was, but forgot over the decades. Wish I'd tracked that down.

On the other hand, the supposed Griffon wreck site is only 10 miles from Rock Island. I know that storms come up fast on the lake, but you'd think that one of the ones left behind would have commented on the weather. You can see 10 miles on the open lake.

Myself, I think it's farther along to the northeast.
 

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