Golden Virgin Mary.. mystery?

[Pesca]

Hello everyone! I am trying to figure out what it is.
Found metal detecting in shallow waters in a nearshore island of Puerto Rico.
The closest I have gotten in ID is possibly part of an old religious book cover or similar religious item. It is one-sided and quite thin. I believe it was on land and ended up in the water in recent times. It has wave /sea shell symbolism and is very interesting and detailed, thanks!

 

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[ToddsPoint]

That's a beautiful piece. Is it gold? Gold plated? Gold or not, still nice. Congrats on a nice find! Gary

 

[DCMatt]

Cool piece.

Could be an emblem from a cremation urn.

 

[Pesca]

Thanks! I am quite certain it is gold as it has no corrosion from salt water and has not been cleaned or treated in any way. I believe it is old and probably was part of something important simply because it's made of gold and clearly an embellishment.

 

[Mackaydon]

What does the reverse side look like?
Don......

 

[Pesca]

Don, the second foto is of the reverse side.

 

[DCMatt]

Perhaps from a rosary case/box?

This one is from the 1950's.


You say you think it is old, but 'old' is a relative term. The item appears to be machine stamped.

 

[Mackaydon]

Pesca,
Thanks.
Without the purity of gold shown, I'd be suspicious.
Don...

 

[DCMatt]

Holy water bottle?

 

[A2coins]

Thats a unique find I cant help but research can be fun. Great relic Welcome to tnet from Michigan Tommy

 

[Pesca]

Thanks for the welcome and help.. used t-net many times just have never posted... I found some more information that might help in identifying. The art is of "the lady of perpetual help",. What is more unique is the added symbolism in the form of seashell and waves.. I have found no other examples of this in this icon. Again this was found on an offshore uninhabited island. Thanks again

 

[Tuberale]

Looks like gold. Easily bent? Purity? I think this one qualifies as BANNER material.

 

[Tuberale]

Hello everyone! I am trying to figure out what it is.
Found metal detecting in shallow waters in a nearshore island of Puerto Rico.
The closest I have gotten in ID is possibly part of an old religious book cover or similar religious item. It is one-sided and quite thin. I believe it was on land and ended up in the water in recent times. It has wave /sea shell symbolism and is very interesting and detailed, thanks!View attachment 1744007View attachment 1744008View attachment 1744009

I'd like to nominate this as banner. I think it is gold. To be sure, can you try bending one of the 4 wings? Post results?

 

[DCMatt]

Thanks for the welcome and help.. used t-net many times just have never posted... I found some more information that might help in identifying. The art is of "the lady of perpetual help",. What is more unique is the added symbolism in the form of seashell and waves.. I have found no other examples of this in this icon. Again this was found on an offshore uninhabited island. Thanks again

This is the closest I found.



This one is a modern pendant. Solid gold, not gold foil or overlay. It has a similar decorative boarder - not shells and waves, just decoration.

 

[Pesca]

DCMatt thanks! That definitely has similarities to piece I found. Well I went to a local pawn shop today and they confirmed it is 18k! I know gold when I have it.. jeje. The search continues

 

[DCMatt]

I did a little reading on "Our Lady of Perpetual Help". Even though originally painted before 1499, the icon was not known to the public until the 1860's. Under Pope Pius X, it became more widely known. In 1927 the Perpetual Novena began in the USA bringing more exposure and popularity to the icon.

So... It can't be any older than 1866.

There is the "Nuestra Señora del Perpetuo Socorro" church in San Juan, built 1921.

 

[Pesca]

I've read a lot both in English and Spanish from educational documents with original cited sources apart from the simple and incomplete Wikipedia summary. The history of the "madre de perpetuo socorro" actually shows that before the painting disappeared the icon was of great influence far and wide. From Sicily to Spain to Hispañola, New México and not as widely mentioned the Caribbean, all devoted to the icon before the date mentioned. the franciscans and other missions in the new world were hand in hand with the colonization and enslavement of the taínos and others. Though the painting had "disappeared" it was only after hundreds of years of being venerated as an icon.
Since the icon has been a source of savior/miracles for ships historically and the imagery contains symbols not typical of modern copies, apart from many other details such as place and circumstances in which I found it and minute details not appreciated through the foto. It might be some real random coincidence that a very thin religious gold item ended up were it did but my experience and gut tells me it has more story to it...just my opinion

 

[DCMatt]

I've read a lot both in English and Spanish from educational documents with original cited sources apart from the simple and incomplete Wikipedia summary... my experience and gut tells me it has more story to it...just my opinion

Text removed because the author needs to switch to decaf coffee. Sorry about that...

 

[Pesca]

Well.. i didn't mean to offend anyone. imply anything and I surely am not judging anyone. Everyone is entitled to their Opinion. I guess I wasn't in accordance with the statement "it can't be any older than 1866..." after doing research and wasn't able to word it right- no need to mention Wikipedia/English is my second language.
Nothing personal.. in all honesty I really don't fantasize.. no need to, I have found many more valuable and historical finds than this icon.. It would not bother me at all if it were fake, modern, or whatever. I do consult scholarly sources often apart from friendly and helpful people and sources. Thank you and everyone else for your inputs, have a good day.

 

[Plug N Play]

Now, that's funny. I was trying to smooth things over a bit, and suggest another cup of coffee.
Before posting, I checked for any updates, and I'm cracking up ... DC suggests decaf. Ha ha

There we go .
This is a cool item and it would be great to keep looking for the answer.
You want DC on this one because he researches deep, ... he often finds angles for others to follow.

I think the ideas tossed out so far, are great possibilities, .... bible, urn, holy water ? ... (holy water is a great suggestion that might be overlooked, kudos Matt)

I tried following the leads yesterday, and can see where we'd get bogged down. There is a lot of information to gather, and the variances ? ... omg ... the leads head all over the world, through different times and cultures.

To simplify the search, I tried to find an explanation for the symbols around the edges and stuck out.

There didn't seem to be any "standard" along those lines. Came to the conclusion they are probably simple embellishments, because so many different ones were popping up. I don't know.

I'm with you Pesca, in that this one just might be something special. I could find similar pendants, etc ... but yours always looked more refined, looked more like gold than the ones that said they were gold.

I tried "caskets and urns" and thought urns was a great lead ... and holy water is a brilliant possibility ... bibles and books led me into an area "novenas" and I became totally lost in which way to go with that.

There's a lot of angles to chase on this one, and the quality of the piece seems to surpass most of what turns up in the searching.

I'm hoping there's an answer, here. What are we missing ? This can't be the only one made ?

ps: decaf ?... nope ... No way Jose ! Only real coffee !