Glacial gold in hard pack cobble bar help please.

[Keeneongold]

In S.w. Ohio and found a new place.
Research some surficial maps and picked a spot.
Drove around and saw a land owner out burning trash and asked for permission.
"Gold in that creek?"
"Yes sir"
"Pull around and park by the fuel tank"
"YES"!

We walked to the nearest turn in the creek and found 2 foot round rocks scattered here and there on top of the gravel bar. Front end of the bar is cobble, back end is sand.
Went to stick a shovel in to sample pan and the stuff is packed hard.
At least 4 to 5 minutes to fill up a classifier to do one sample pan.
1st sample pan gives us 3 of the biggest flakes I've ever seen without shelling out money for paydirt.
I was using a #12 classifier. I could have never conceived that I would find anything bigger where I'm at.
Well we do a little dance and do 2 more pans. We're just there to check it out and it's getting dark.
Point is this.... Last Wednesday we spent about 5 hours in other parts of the creek sampling and investigating and ended up back at the down stream place wher we first sampled.
The very top (6inches) is HARD packed. Below that is kinda soft clay and seemingly decomposing shale type bedrock...even though the map says the native bedrock is several hundreds of feet below us.
The stuff we're dealing with is, I think, a very unmolested layer of glacial deposit. I'm not sure what accounts for this cobble bar being so hard packed but it is. At one point we were digging and I saw about 5 or six flattish stones horizontally packed in with one flat semi triangular stone vertically wedged in perfectly between. It looked like a stone mason with a sense of humor layed a wall on the side of this river bank.
Where I need help is this... we will keep excavating this layer no doubt but I fear when we leave it, come spring the flood waters will bring stones down the creek and break up a previously impenetrable hardpack, thus throwing all our big gold into places unknown. I know where it is now. If we had found this place at the beginning of summer we could have got "all" of the big stuff on the surface.
How do we protect this bar?
Should we jam our holes with holders?
Is there anything we can do to ward off the erosion that springtime floods will bring.

Also, any ideas of what's happening in this creek is appreciated.

 

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[loco oro]

Very cool find, glacial gold is very difficult to prospect, it sounds like you hit on a spot where the creek has meandered into a glacial till deposit this could explain the hardpack ,the till would consist of well mixed clays, soil,and gravels, over time this (natural cement) would be buried and compacted to your hardpack, my advice is fill your holes with large stone back to its original level and hope spring floods flow over your holes, trying to fight the creek would be for not, might I suggest you get neoprene waders and get it now, for glacial gold is spotty, and when you hit a spot, then get it.

 

[Keeneongold]

Thanks for the reply loco.
We're going back Sunday for a full day to concentrate on that one spot. We'll do as you suggested. I'll find some flat stones and try to wedge them in to keep it level.
Keeping it level makes sense.

 

[Keeneongold]

Went back today. Perfect weather.

Today's stuff!
Total time there with 3 buckets classified to 1/4 in.

 

[enamel7]

That's some purdy gold!

 

[arizau]

Just curious. If you are sluicing then why are you taking the time to classify to minus 1/4" instead of maybe 1/2" or larger? You will up your throughput and probably your gold take by using less restrictive classification, eg. Let your sluice do most of the classification and it will, at the same time, also take care of the gold. If you are panning then do "production panning" with no classification other than washing off and tossing out larger stones. Here you are just producing rough concentrates (to further classify and finish pan at home) with virtually no chance of streamside loss of even the smallest of gold.

Good luck.

 

[MidMoTreasure]

Very nice, that is some large glacial gold! I wish the stuff I find was that big. Congrats, and keep at it.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

I dig the same type of deposits here in Colorado, mostly glacial. I keep my holes open year round by building a rock dam around the upstream end to keep the current out and to keep the hole from filling back in with sand. As the water soaks into the walls of the hole it will soften up within a few minutes usually but hard pack is a 81tch either way.
I don't know how big that waterway is or what the spring runoff is like so you'll have to figure that out. I wouldn't fill the hole back in unless you absolutely have too.
If it fills back in naturally it would be mostly lights and sands so that's easy to shovel back out. Don't fill it with big rocks that you'll have to dig back out.
That's nice chunky gold and I bet you'll find some pockets around there. Get to those clays underneath. That's where the big chunks will be.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Go get a 14lb San Angelo bar. It's the tool to have.

 

[Keeneongold]

Just curious. If you are sluicing then why are you taking the time to classify to minus 1/4" instead of maybe 1/2" or larger? You will up your throughput and probably your gold take by using less restrictive classification, eg. Let your sluice do most of the classification and it will, at the same time, also take care of the gold. If you are panning then do "production panning" with no classification other than washing off and tossing out larger stones. Here you are just producing rough concentrates (to further classify and finish pan at home) with virtually no chance of streamside loss of even the smallest of gold.

Good luck.

The reason for the 1/4in classification is access pretty much. I wanted to buy the bucket classifier from Nathaniel that sells them on his website. He's not a sponsor so I probably shouldn't give the website but his classifier looks awesome.
It's basically a heavy gauge expanded metal basket that fits in a 5 gallon bucket and looks to make quick work of it.
My partner is making a welder so we will be making one soon.
This is what it will look like....


This fry basket that you can find at restaurant supply stores about anywhere is what we're using now... it classifies to 1/4in at most spots on the basket....


Trust me we wish we were going 1/2in. we just didn't have an acceptable tool. I hate those plastic classifiers out on the creek. They are so slow and especially with the flour gold I was finding before this new spot I just couldn't get anything done in a reasonable time.
I did have a stainless steel pasta strainer that I drilled to expand existing holes and add additional holes but that piece of equipment didn't fit in the bucket well. I'd load it up and it would fall into the bucket, effectively jamming itself in the bottom. And even at that it was only 1/4. But it got me thru a spot when I first started.
That's when I started looking for other stuff and settled on the fry basket. It's not perfect but it helps.

And your right about the 1/2in especially for my stream sluice with the gold hog mats. After seeing one of the flakes that we got a couple of days ago we realized we probably classified stuff right out that we probably wanted to keep
Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Keeneongold]

I dig the same type of deposits here in Colorado, mostly glacial. I keep my holes open year round by building a rock dam around the upstream end to keep the current out and to keep the hole from filling back in with sand. As the water soaks into the walls of the hole it will soften up within a few minutes usually but hard pack is a 81tch either way.
I don't know how big that waterway is or what the spring runoff is like so you'll have to figure that out. I wouldn't fill the hole back in unless you absolutely have too.
If it fills back in naturally it would be mostly lights and sands so that's easy to shovel back out. Don't fill it with big rocks that you'll have to dig back out.
That's nice chunky gold and I bet you'll find some pockets around there. Get to those clays underneath. That's where the big chunks will be.

Yesterday I couldn't get a good pan on the cobble bar so I got into the middle of the stream where some big rocks had settled and did a sample pan..got really good color.
I started pulling out rocks and digging a line at the edge of right where the water starts to turn shallow and run thru "rapids".
The rocks I pulled out had concrete on the bottom and shale/clay underneath.
I kept at it, going only at the top 10 inches or so, getting some shale/ clay but not going past that point too much, and had a good day.
Do you think there could be bigger stuff once we go past the clay or should we just go to clay, scrape off the top few inches and widen the hole?
My partner is a bedrock bloodhound.
Bedrock, where we're at, is hundreds of feet below us so no chance on that but I got a digger. Only thing that will stop him is oxygen and that can be delivered thru a tube if he gets below the water line.

 

[loco oro]

Open holes do fill with sands naturally, but also promote erosion on the downstream end, and when you have a decent spot in glacial territory erosion you don't want, you want to bust the hardpack, not spring runoff. Fill your holes. Its not that much work, open holes allow current into and promote erosion, this is why the greenies are all over us to begin with.

 

[Keeneongold]

Yeah we filled the holes before we left yesterday with big rocks to level. Did an alright job but we need to do better before spring. We just couldn't stop digging

 

[nh.nugget]

Yesterday I couldn't get a good pan on the cobble bar so I got into the middle of the stream where some big rocks had settled and did a sample pan..got really good color.
I started pulling out rocks and digging a line at the edge of right where the water starts to turn shallow and run thru "rapids".
The rocks I pulled out had concrete on the bottom and shale/clay underneath.
I kept at it, going only at the top 10 inches or so, getting some shale/ clay but not going past that point too much, and had a good day.
Do you think there could be bigger stuff once we go past the clay or should we just go to clay, scrape off the top few inches and widen the hole?
My partner is a bedrock bloodhound.
Bedrock, where we're at, is hundreds of feet below us so no chance on that but I got a digger. Only thing that will stop him is oxygen and that can be delivered thru a tube if he gets below the water line.

Here in NH our bed rock is the clay. We have blue clay once you get to that we clean it so it looks like pottery material. our clay runs deep if you can get through it there's nothing under it.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

In my area Im finding more deposits and older flood layers under the clays which also have their own clays, so it all needs test panned here and there when layers change. I haven't hit the bottom of my deposit yet and I may never get there haha. (I can only hope.)
My clays are mostly combined with small aggregates and it breaks apart easily, not much of the fine "potters clay" we all hate, but that could be deeper. It just depends on what type of clays your into and previous floods, etc. Sometimes the best gold is found in the top flood layers and we see that too but the better gold is normally deeper.
The clays are always worth checking. It's worth breaking it up if it carries the best gold and usually does. My guess with the age of your gold it probably goes deep but any of those layers could be catching gold like a false bedrock.
You're onto a good start there and figuring out the mystery of the gold is the best part to me. Once you figure out consistencies you'll be able to pick and choose dig spots more easily.
If you can block your hole from eroding or filling in and no one will complain about it I'd do that. No point in letting the river reclaim your hole. There probably aren't many greenies in Missouri looking for open mining pits to complain about and if it's private property your good. I wouldnt worry about that.
I work my holes for weeks sometimes and its fine.

 

[Gambrinus]

Were I live we have similar conditions that you have and the clay layer is called false bedrock. In the past a few shafts were sunk below this false bedrock and no values were hit until actual bedrock was reached and then in this case it proved unprofitable to go that deep around 100 feet, it may have been worth it except for the cost of timbering and removing the water from the shaft.
We also have cemented gravel and usually wherever it is found it holds very good values, but even a backhoe has difficulty digging it. I did have some success using an electric rotary hammer drill with a chisel bit and generator. Of course that adds to the overhead, I also tried hydraulicing with a small pump with good result except that water was very limited in this area. But I imagine that would be a problem for you because you are right next to a creek and would get it muddy.

 

[Keeneongold]

In my area Im finding more deposits and older flood layers under the clays which also have their own clays, so it all needs test panned here and there when layers change. I haven't hit the bottom of my deposit yet and I may never get there haha. (I can only hope.)
My clays are mostly combined with small aggregates and it breaks apart easily, not much of the fine "potters clay" we all hate, but that could be deeper. It just depends on what type of clays your into and previous floods, etc. Sometimes the best gold is found in the top flood layers and we see that too but the better gold is normally deeper.
The clays are always worth checking. It's worth breaking it up if it carries the best gold and usually does. My guess with the age of your gold it probably goes deep but any of those layers could be catching gold like a false bedrock.
You're onto a good start there and figuring out the mystery of the gold is the best part to me. Once you figure out consistencies you'll be able to pick and choose dig spots more easily.
If you can block your hole from eroding or filling in and no one will complain about it I'd do that. No point in letting the river reclaim your hole. There probably aren't many greenies in Missouri looking for open mining pits to complain about and if it's private property your good. I wouldnt worry about that.
I work my holes for weeks sometimes and its fine.

Figuring out the mystery
I do love that part also.
Thanks to you and all advice and thoughts given by everyone.
I'll update as I can.
I have found that people's actual experience how they work their glacial gold deposit and what they find REALLY helps me think thru all this.
So please keep them coming.

 

[Capt Nemo]

For one spot I hit, I classify to 1/2" to fill the bucket, and then classify to 1/4" during panning.

 

[Keeneongold]

For one spot I hit, I classify to 1/2" to fill the bucket, and then classify to 1/4" during panning.

This winter I'm getting some tools ready for the spot come summer, or ASAP.
Gonna make a wire basket classifier, debating between 3/4 or 1/2.

 

[Duckshot]

If you are only going to classify once go as small as you think you can get away with. If you are not likely to find 1/4 inch nuggets with glacial gold i would classify to 1/4". I usually classify twice like Capt. Nemo says. 1/2" then 1/4" then pan.

I like to make my classifier by cutting a hole in the bottom of a one gallon bucket leaving a rim on the inside bottom, then I cut a piece of hardware cloth that fits snugly in the bottom but not too tight. That way I can just swap the two hardware cloth screens out when I need the other size. I can go down to 1/8 inch screen but I gotta put it over the 1/2 inch screen to use it. Otherwise the screen will just sag through the bottom of the bucket. Only one classifier to carry but with three mesh sizes. Takes up less space and probably weighs less than a couple of stacking plastic classifiers.