GARRY CUNDIFF'S SITE BACK ONLINE

[cactusjumper]

Not sure if this is against the rules, but Garry Cundiff's site is back up. It's a great source of information on the LDM legend.

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~gcundiff/genealogy/LostDutchman/Dutchman.htm

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

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[wrmickel1]

Thanks Cactusjumper

I'll check it out

wrmickel1

 

[Azquester]

More general Stone Map BS from that site.

It's a waste of time.

Just like RG did for 3 years. Nothing positive came out of it. .

To bad all these people wasted their time on Travis. He just wasn't worth it.

I should know because I was one of them!

 

[393stroker]

I found the Reed letters interesting. Especially the part where he’s talking about up in the Iron Mountain,Rough Canyon area where there’s some caves that you don’t hear much about.

 

[cactusjumper]

More general Stone Map BS from that site.

It's a waste of time.

Just like RG did for 3 years. Nothing positive came out of it. .

To bad all these people wasted their time on Travis. He just wasn't worth it.

I should know because I was one of them!

Bill,

I would say you are the real expert here.

On the other hand, Garry has done some great work and quite unselfishly shared it with all of us.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[wrmickel1]

More general Stone Map BS from that site.

It's a waste of time.

Just like RG did for 3 years. Nothing positive came out of it. .

To bad all these people wasted their time on Travis. He just wasn't worth it.

I should know because I was one of them!

Well I'm sorry for your waste of mind, Bill
But I'm sure the Time was not wasted, Weather a Healthier you or a new direction seen with your boots on the ground, have always been a benefit for me. Now to waste your mind on a con man, Well!
From Ryan To Frank with a known place that Travis spent his time at. Has no bearing on weather the maps are fake. Unless you believe Travis was in the right place. Then I would assume the other hundred people who claimed they solved them like
Ryan and Frank to Joe toooooooooooooo

Wrmickel1

 

[cactusjumper]

Well I'm sorry for your waste of mind, Bill
But I'm sure the Time was not wasted, Weather a Healthier you or a new direction seen with your boots on the ground, have always been a benefit for me. Now to waste your mind on a con man, Well!
From Ryan To Frank with a known place that Travis spent his time at. Has no bearing on weather the maps are fake. Unless you believe Travis was in the right place. Then I would assume the other hundred people who claimed they solved them like
Ryan and Frank to Joe toooooooooooooo

Wrmickel1

Wrm,

To be clear, I never paid much attention to the early information on the Stone Maps, or what others have dug up since. My conclusions are based entirely on the maps themselves, and what I found on the ground.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Thanks for letting us know Joe.

 

[cactusjumper]

Thanks for letting us know Joe.

Hi Roy, Beth and assorted hounds,

I have been checking on the site every since it was shut down. Finally had success. Hope all is well.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Not sure if this is against the rules, but Garry Cundiff's site is back up. It's a great source of information on the LDM legend.

Lost Dutchman Mine Documents

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Joe, just FYI since the link you posted does not have a forum nor is it selling, in my opinion it does not violate our rules.

 

[Azquester]

Bill,

I would say you are the real expert here.

On the other hand, Garry has done some great work and quite unselfishly shared it with all of us.

Good luck,

Joe

Thank you!

I guess I am Joe!

Anyone can become an expert on "Fake Maps carved by fraudulent means" all you have to do is read what the FBI said about the maps. Once you do that you become an instant "Expert" on carved fakes.
When it comes to spending time researching the stone maps Gary has me out gunned. You're right though, Gary has unselfishly given us research which I read many years ago when the site was up. As with me, I'm sure at some time or another you've Patronized him as you do so casually to others on here. As I see it you're the "Expert" at doing such.

Keep up the good work!

May the Waltz force be with you,

Bill

 

[Azquester]

Well I'm sorry for your waste of mind, Bill
But I'm sure the Time was not wasted, Weather a Healthier you or a new direction seen with your boots on the ground, have always been a benefit for me. Now to waste your mind on a con man, Well!
From Ryan To Frank with a known place that Travis spent his time at. Has no bearing on weather the maps are fake. Unless you believe Travis was in the right place. Then I would assume the other hundred people who claimed they solved them like
Ryan and Frank to Joe toooooooooooooo

Wrmickel1

Frank and Ryan know more about Travis than we all do I would assume.

At any given time in the Superstitions I would dare say there is at least four or five expeditions going on with groups that claimed to have found the end of the stone map trail. I'm privy to at least 3 of them right now. One large and two small clandestine groups all saying they've found the key. One group even claims that Ryan is with in site of their trove of unknown substance. In case anyone doesn't know it on the Tonto National Forest website it gives the seven steps to filing a Treasure Trove Permit. On the second step it says in plain writing if you're filing for the Lost Dutchman Mine or the Peralta Stone Maps your permit will get denied right then and there! So anyone that gets caught doing such will be thrown out of the range.

 

[Azquester]

Common Reasons for Denial

: ​

• Any proposal determined to be “inappropriate use of System lands” or venue is better suited for non-federally owned lands. Proponent may be required to provide proof of efforts exploring alternatives prior submission.
• Non-issued categories:
  • Treasure Trove — i.e.: Lost Dutchman Mine, Spanish Gold
  • Merchandise or Food Vendor — i.e.: Hot dog carts, Taco trucks
  • Service Provider - i.e.: Watercraft repair, watercraft rentals and delivery
  • Shuttle Services — i.e.: River tubing transport

I stand corrected. It says "Spanish Gold" not the stone maps. But I believe at one time we had a Forest Service officer on here that said if you approached them with any stone map theories it would fall in the "Spanish Gold" category.

 

[azdave35]

I stand corrected. It says "Spanish Gold" not the stone maps. But I believe at one time we had a Forest Service officer on here that said if you approached them with any stone map theories it would fall in the "Spanish Gold" category.

anyone that tries to get a treasure trove permit in the supers is in for years of red tape and b.s. ..in other words it ain't gonna happen..but you will go broke trying

 

[wrmickel1]

anyone that tries to get a treasure trove permit in the supers is in for years of red tape and b.s. ..in other words it ain't gonna happen..but you will go broke trying

I do agree to a point, Dave.
Going broke even if you were granted a permit is pretty much, what would happen anyway.
But I do think if one had solid proof the maps are real they would grant a permit to examine early America Anglo life in the America's.

Wrmickel1

 

[Azquester]

anyone that tries to get a treasure trove permit in the supers is in for years of red tape and b.s. ..in other words it ain't gonna happen..but you will go broke trying

I know of one group that has done it. It took a lawyer and a lot of OPM's (other peoples money) to do it. The problem lies in what to do with any finds. The Forest Service Manual states any finds are to be sent to the GSA for one year so any other claims to the find can be adjudicated. After one year you need to petition the GSA for a share of the find. Feldman's Permit wasn't for trove from what I remember, but, it was for Archaeological and stated that the GSA took possession for one year to allow for legal claims. The government has no favoritism when it comes to any finds they protect the general public from an unscrupulous discoverer taking it all for themselves. Sort of a "Social Justice" for Treasure Finders if you will. That prevents a lot of potential investors from getting in the mix. It usually falls on the individual to motivate the people investing like old Crazy Jake. But if you make a discovery first it makes for even larger problems. Enough to make the group walk away from it and never reveal the location. Finding Treasures has more problems associated with the logistics than searching for treasure.

We should all have such problems.

 

[cactusjumper]

I know of one group that has done it. It took a lawyer and a lot of OPM's (other peoples money) to do it. The problem lies in what to do with any finds. The Forest Service Manual states any finds are to be sent to the GSA for one year so any other claims to the find can be adjudicated. After one year you need to petition the GSA for a share of the find. Feldman's Permit wasn't for trove from what I remember, but, it was for Archaeological and stated that the GSA took possession for one year to allow for legal claims. The government has no favoritism when it comes to any finds they protect the general public from an unscrupulous discoverer taking it all for themselves. Sort of a "Social Justice" for Treasure Finders if you will. That prevents a lot of potential investors from getting in the mix. It usually falls on the individual to motivate the people investing like old Crazy Jake. But if you make a discovery first it makes for even larger problems. Enough to make the group walk away from it and never reveal the location. Finding Treasures has more problems associated with the logistics than searching for treasure.

We should all have such problems.

Bill,

Thanks to Tom Kollenborn, I doubt they had much of a problem getting money.


Good luck,

Joe

 

[Azquester]

Bill,

Thanks to Tom Kollenborn, I doubt they had much of a problem getting money.


Good luck,

Joe

Yes Tom was a good spokesperson for the Dutch Hunters. So were many others. When it comes to the Stone Maps it was Travis that started that fire.

Lets just say for arguments sake that when a Geologist, an Archaeologist, a rich investor, a geophysical company using advanced satellite void & gold detection technology all get together and locate a cache, they have no need for any research material or other investors. It's a sure thing at that point anyone would invest. It's the sharing of the find that creates the problem is all I was saying. It has nothing to do with the Stone Maps or the Lost Dutchman. Maybe it has a lot to do with the Jesuits but that is questionable. Tom was a good old boy and he knew a lot that's for sure. When technology surpasses the need for research people like old Tom become obsolete. That's not to say that any future discovery has anything to do with any known history. It may all be a new type of history that no one knows about. Technology has made leaps in the past few years. The Treasure Quest adventure showed a little of it in Bolivia with the Sacambaya Treasure. We'll be seeing more in the near future of that I'm sure.

 

[cactusjumper]

Yes Tom was a good spokesperson for the Dutch Hunters. So were many others. When it comes to the Stone Maps it was Travis that started that fire.

Lets just say for arguments sake that when a Geologist, an Archaeologist, a rich investor, a geophysical company using advanced satellite void & gold detection technology all get together and locate a cache, they have no need for any research material or other investors. It's a sure thing at that point anyone would invest. It's the sharing of the find that creates the problem is all I was saying. It has nothing to do with the Stone Maps or the Lost Dutchman. Maybe it has a lot to do with the Jesuits but that is questionable. Tom was a good old boy and he knew a lot that's for sure. When technology surpasses the need for research people like old Tom become obsolete. That's not to say that any future discovery has anything to do with any known history. It may all be a new type of history that no one knows about. Technology has made leaps in the past few years. The Treasure Quest adventure showed a little of it in Bolivia with the Sacambaya Treasure. We'll be seeing more in the near future of that I'm sure.

Bill,

You are mistaken here. Tom Kollenborn never became "obsolete". Tom lived the history that other people wrote, read and talked about. His memories were a treasure house for many, like me, who used Tom as a primary source. Unless he told me otherwise, I was able to publish what he told me. Eventually he and Sharon became our close and trusted friends.

I did not say that Tom was involved in getting funding for the Pit Mine project. He found the mine and told his friends where it was. Without that, I don't believe that mine would have ever been reopened. IMHO, the Ted Cox story was just an opportunity for another interesting book.

Good luck,

Joe