✅ SOLVED French 1 Sol (1766-1773) - I have some questions for our experts

[brianc053]

Hello everyone! It's been a long time since I last posted because my family and I moved from New Jersey down to Delaware, and I've been struggling to secure new permissions.
Well, this past week my fortunes changed and I got permission to hunt at a farm that I know had some houses in the 1800s. Because the location is in the vicinity of some sites that date to the 1700s I was hopeful that I'd find something from that century. And I did!

I know this is a French 1 Sol coin with King Louis the 15th on the obverse; the obverse is in pretty good shape (all things considered).
And while the reverse is more rough, I do think I see a "rounded shield" on the reverse, which leads me to believe that it is this variety: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces8859.html

But I have a few more questions that I'm hoping the group can help with:

1. does anyone see a date above the shield? I know it should be between 1766 and 1773, but I'm not sure what I'm seeing. Maybe that's a "0" up there as the last digit? (I do not think it's a 1,2,3, 7 or 9 - leaving only 1766, 1768, or 1770 in my opinion). There don't seem to be a lot of pictures of 1 Sol Louis 15th coins so it's hard to compare to anything.

2. Can anyone explain why this coin is 28.7mm in diameter when Numista says it should be 28mm? Were there non-regal versions of these made (on incorrectly sized planchettes)?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

- Brian

 

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[E-Trac-Ohio]

Sorry, I can't help with a detailed ID but I can tell you one thing for sure - it's a fantastic find !

 

[brianc053]

Sorry, I can't help with a detailed ID but I can tell you one thing for sure - it's a fantastic find !

Thanks E-Trac. I'm excited about this site. I found the coin toward the end of my available time this morning, so there's still a lot of area around where the coin was found that could hold more treasures.
The coin was about 5 feet from this tombac button; I've never found one of these with the shank intact.

 

[E-Trac-Ohio]

I'd hunt the heck out of any place that gave up a 1700's coin - from at least two different directions !
Also, I grew up in Bergen County, NJ - lived there for over 35 years.

Good Luck on the return hunts !

 

[Red-Coat]

Can anyone explain why this coin is 28.7mm in diameter when Numista says it should be 28mm? Were there non-regal versions of these made (on incorrectly sized planchettes)?

Hi Brian

I wouldn’t worry about a deviation of 0.7mm from published data for coin diameters from this period. Your coin would have been struck without a restraining collar to restrict the spread of the planchet during striking. Numista describes it as “milled” coinage but that only means it was machine-struck rather than hammered by hand.

The French medallist and engraver Jean-Pierre Droz didn't invent what is known as “close collar minting” until 1789. It was soon adopted for coinage as a means of ensuring perfectly circular coins with a consistent diameter which were more difficult to counterfeit and more noticeable if they had been clipped. Prior to that, coins were generally subject to small variations in diameter and often not perfectly circular.

A version of the restraining collar existed before Droz’s invention (introduced to France by the engineer Aubin Olivier in the 16th Century) but the collar had to be disassembled to remove the coin after each strike. It was intended for applying edge-lettering or other designs as an anti-counterfeiting measure rather than to ensure uniform diameters, but the slowness of the process and the tendency to damage the upper die if not perfectly aligned meant it was generally only used for higher value coins in gold or silver. Your coin is in copper and will (should) have a plain edge.

The engineer Jean Castaing invented an improved machine for applying edge lettering via a collar around 1679 that could produce 20,000 coins per day and it was adopted at various mints after being approved by the French government in 1686. Even then, the machines were expensive and widely regarded as unnecessary, except for higher value coins.

 

[brianc053]

Hi Brian

I wouldn’t worry about a deviation of 0.7mm from published data for coin diameters from this period....

Red-Coat, all I can say is: Wow! Thank you so much for sharing this information; I've definitely learned something today.
I'll consider this one a regal from France (do they call actual French milled ones "regal", like British ones? You don't have to answer unless there's some non-obvious information to share. I tried to search for info about non-regal French coins and didn't find much).
- Brian

 

[Almy]

Exciting very old coin find, and French at that! I think these French coins circulated among a hodgepodge of similar-sized British and states halfpenny sized coins. There was a scarcity in colonial times and many types were acceptable. Among British halfpennies, tokens, a stiver, a Connecticut and a New Jersey coin, all of similar size, I too found a French coin similar to yours. But I'm pretty sure it was used by British colonial settlers, not French.

 

[Red-Coat]

Red-Coat, all I can say is: Wow! Thank you so much for sharing this information; I've definitely learned something today.
I'll consider this one a regal from France (do they call actual French milled ones "regal", like British ones? You don't have to answer unless there's some non-obvious information to share. I tried to search for info about non-regal French coins and didn't find much).
- Brian

You're welcome.

Yes, there were periods in France's history when it was a monarchy, and so "Regal" would be a proper term to describe coinage from those periods... apart from things like provincial token coinage issued unofficially and some French colonial currency. Standard circulation coins of Louis XV would certainly be regarded as Regal.

This is probably more than you want to know but...

France was ruled by Kings between AD 842 – 1848, but with several interruptions. While it was a monarchy, the title “Francorum Rex” (King of the Franks) was normally used until the 18th Century when French replaced Latin as the formal language for regnal titles on coins. France never had a Queen, except as consorts to the reigning Kings.

In the aftermath of the revolution of 1789 the title switched to “Rois des Français” (King of the French) in 1791, linking the monarch’s title to the French people rather than its geographic territories. The monarchy was then abolished and France became a Republic in 1792, with King Louis XVI becoming a figurehead stripped of all political power and ultimately executed in 1793. France then had what was an ineffective ‘emergency’ government as a Consulate without a formal head of state until the coup of 1799 when one of the conspirators (Napoleon Bonaparte) was installed as “First Consul” to head the government.

Bonaparte was proclaimed “Empereur des Français” (Emperor of the French) by the Consulate in 1804 and then self-proclaimed Emperor in a territorial sense later that year. France’s first Empire ran from 1804-1814 when Bonaparte was defeated at Waterloo and the monarchy restored; Bonaparte made a brief comeback but was defeated again, failed to establish his son as Emperor Napoleon II to succeed him (except in name only for a few weeks) and the monarchy was restored again in 1815.

Despite another revolution in 1830, a turbulent monarchy continued until the revolution of 1848 when France became a Republic for the second time, with the abdication of King Louis Philippe I. He hoped to have his nine-year-old grandson installed as King Louis Philippe II but although he disputedly held that title for two days he was never officially recognised as King and the French monarchy came to an end for good. Bonaparte’s nephew Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte was elected President and then overthrew the Republic in a coup in 1851, declaring himself Emperor Napoleon III of the Second Empire, which lasted from 1852 to 1870.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I can’t see a date but the big 1700s 2 Sols my wife dug wasn’t sized quite right either. As I recall it was 1 mm off. Weight was correct though.