✅ SOLVED Found yesterday at T-Store German WWI Helmet? Military Advice Needed

[tamrock]

I went for some brake pads for my darlings car yesterday and swung by the ARC Thift store as it was close to the Parts Store. I picked up this helmet for $16 & some change as it was 1/2 off Sat. and priced at $29.99...I did some research last night and I'm sure its WWI, but it has some features I can't find on all the other images of WWI German helmets, such as it was painted long ago a dull white color and has this mounting bracket, like a miners caplamp hat on the front. Could be for mounting a badge of some kind?. The only mark I can find is a stamp on the inside back rim and as best I can tell it is VI II 95. I did try and pencil shade it on paper, but the paint on the inside is to thick. I don't want to sand it down, so I believe I'm very close on that stamp mark. I have looked over many websites and I'm hoping someone can find a positive ID on why the white paint, as I don't think it was added after in later times and that strange front bracket?... I did find that some German helmets that look like this one were used in a German civilian police squad around WWII and maybe the helmet was made in or used in Austria?... Have At It & Thanks for your help fellas.

 

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[FeS2]

I was thinking civil defense helmet. http://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/catalog/WGCivilDefHelmet.JPG

What's the diff between a regular military and a CD helmet? Wouldn't it be in the thickness of the metal? CD workers needed protection from bomb frags and falling stuff but not from bullets.

As for the fittings no idea. Carbide lamp maybe? Visor?

 

[taz42o]

Looks like an m16. I think the clip on the front was added later. Also the liner rivets do not look correct.
The long vent lugs are for a 6mm thick plate that clipped on the front to stop bullets.


German Helmet Educational Section

German Helmet Decals

 

[Citiboy289]

Didnt sniper helmets have a face plate ?

 

[tamrock]

Thanks for the info on this find of mine. I did find a website that deals in old military items. They have a helmet they say is a M-18 that was used as a Medic helmet painted white w/ redcross and re-fitted liner band. It is I think possible the helmet was used for maybe WWII and was just pulled out for service from old inventory. I was searching for german helmet with lamp bracket and found this website. Stahlhelm Helmet Tropenhelm German Picklehaub Helmets for Sale
Boy! My kids will have a bunch of junk to go through after I'm gone. I just don't have that feeling I can sell this find on Ebay as I do with my pick's. Maybe when I find more on it I can let it go.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Ok, I know this is going to shock a few people here, but what you have isn't a WW1 German Stahlhelm......In fact it's not German at all.......It's a much better find! It is actually a Model 1927 Irish Free Army "Vickers" Helmet. The brackets on the front were actually there to hold a badge which is missing from yours. The tip-off is the liner rivets, and the shape is slightly different.Plus the code stamped in it "VI" for Vickers. These were made in England, and are not as high quality as the German helmet, since the Irish Army couldn't afford thicker steel. The white paint means it was used by Civil Defense during WW2 and I'd definitely leave it on as it's part of the helmets story.

HELMETS HELMET COLLECTION HELMET IRELAND


Original 1927 Dated Irish Army Vickers Made Helmet | WW1 Militaria | World War Wonders




It might surprise you to know that it's actually a rarer find than the German helmet it was modeled after since a lot fewer were produced, (10,021 total from what info I've found) and most were destroyed in the 1970's. In good condition they can bring 400$ +. I've only ever seen one in person in a friends collection, so I'd say you got a nice score there.

 

[tamrock]

Thank you so much
For me you are right on target and I will say you have solved the mystery of this helmet. I didn't want to say it, but I did have a sense it wasn't German. The stamp, style and construction of it just didn't look 100% Deutschland to me. My hunch on the bracket for a badge was a good assumption, as that had me uncertain as to why out of all the German helmet images online do not have a mounting bracket. Now for the first time I need to learn how to mark an item solved. Thank you again and I will leave it in as is condition. I now know from a kid that my firearms buffed and re-blued and coins I made pretty was only me being a dumb kid.

Found this old photo of Irish Army 1940. You can see the badge mount on the front of their helmets. Sure looks like German troops to me. I think if a Yank saw them marching down the roadway on a moonlitnight I can only guess what may have taken place.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

You're welcome . I wish I could find things like that at the thrift stores here! Talking to a friend of mine last night we're pretty sure that your helmet was probably sold to some GI at the end of WW2 as being German...... I doubt he ever knew his souvenir was Irish unless he looked closely at the liner which should have been stamped with the makers name in Dublin.


There's one other German style helmet with a similar bracket and it's a Spanish version. They look like the WW2 M-35 type helmet, and a whole lot of them have had the bracket removed and a German liner put in and passed off as German. The easiest way to tell them apart is the location of the rivets is different. Unlike yours, the Spanish helmets aren't worth much, and if they've been faked into German helmets, they're pretty much worthless to collectors.

 

[tamrock]

You're welcome . I wish I could find things like that at the thrift stores here! Talking to a friend of mine last night we're pretty sure that your helmet was probably sold to some GI at the end of WW2 as being German...... I doubt he ever knew his souvenir was Irish unless he looked closely at the liner which should have been stamped with the makers name in Dublin.


There's one other German style helmet with a similar bracket and it's a Spanish version. They look like the WW2 M-35 type helmet, and a whole lot of them have had the bracket removed and a German liner put in and passed off as German. The easiest way to tell them apart is the location of the rivets is different. Unlike yours, the Spanish helmets aren't worth much, and if they've been faked into German helmets, they're pretty much worthless to collectors.

I leave my mind open to find things as I have been a collector of anything worth more then I can get it for some time now. You develop a hunch. I don't hit yard sales very much, but years back I was telling the lady having a yard sale I look for all things of interest. She said she has somethings past down through the family and brought out 3 boxed Sextants. One was made in England, One made late 19th cen. in New York and the best was a Nazi C-Plath. I offered her 500 on the spot and she just about fell over. I thought I may be over spending a little much on the lot. The C-plath went to Norway for 1300. the others did 300. and 425. I think it was. I have found at times the German and other Euro alloy silver 80 to 83.5% pure stuff at times and believe they came back from WW2 GI's who were given the task of confiscating weapons and while checking the kitchen and other areas of the house came by the silver and took the as spoils. The stuff doesn't say sterling and amerteurs in the Antique biz just don't catch it at times. Again thanks for your expert advice. It was fun!

 

[surf]

Well done, Ken & well done Grant!

 

[clovis97]

While this does not apply to your helmet, I wouldn't think that finding a can lamp on the front of a WWI helmet would be totally and completely out of the question.

There was a good deal of tunneling going on during WWI. The goals of tunneling were three-fold, it is believed.

1. To give shelter to troops, especially during shelling
2. To move troops from one area to another
3. To dig a tunnel that spanned under the enemy's trench or location, set a massive amount of explosives under them, and detonate the thing.

Many of these tunnels still exist, and there is at least one group studying those tunnels, exploring them, and also trying to save/restore them.

As a side note, the Allies dug a tunnel during WWI, set the explosives under the German lines, and it failed to detonate. Those explosives laid underground until the 1950's, IIRC, when a lightning strike that hit the ground set them off, and it destroyed a nearby farmhouse.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Clovis, You're quite right about al the tunneling that went on during the war, It's estimated that there could still be hundreds of miles of intact tunnels under the Western Front, some up to 100 feet or more deep. The men who dug them weren't regular soldiers though, Both sides recruited miners, especially coal miners to dig the tunnels. They were a VERY closely guarded secret and very few photographs of them exist from wartime. These miners basically brought all the tools of their trade with them including their helmets, which during that time were mostly hard leather with big carbide lamps on them. I couldn't find a photo of a German miners helmet from that time, or at least one I could confirm, but the pic I'm posting is of a British helmet dated 1916, and it's pretty safe to assume the German miners would have had similar helmets. Remember they were more worried about falling rocks than bullets or shrapnel, so a heavy steel helmet would have been more annoying than helpful.



Also a bit of info on the missing mines, one of which is the one you mentioned that exploded in the '50s

http://rense.com/general47/50000lbWW1bomb.htm

 

[clovis97]

Ken,

I wish this forum had a 'Like X100' option. I'd be hitting it on your post.

Thank you for sharing the above information. While I am a military history nut, my main focus of reading and studying has been WWII. And even though I've spent the past 30 years reading and studying military history, I still consider myself both an amateur historian and a neophyte.

As always, I love learning new things, and I appreciate the back story and the picture of the helmet.

I guess that I knew that miners were recruited, but I just assumed that they worked side by side with ground troops in tunneling. I also assumed that the miners wore and used standard military issued field equipment.

Any chance that you could direct me to recommended reading on this topic? I understand that the 'tunnel war' is a subject that very little was known...and in some cases, was nearly forgotten. Books? Film/video? Websites?

Again, thank you. You are an asset to this forum!

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Clovis, here's a good video about excavating one of the bunkers from one of my favorite shows, Time Team :

If you can find it online there was a show called Finding the Fallen which is about trench archeology, they do a really good job of telling the stories behind the digs. I'll see if I can find some links.

Also The Great War Forum has lots of good research and info on WW1 : Great War Forum