Found near Carmel Bay-- "POR" lettering and crown mark

[cantworkthesite]

First off, I am finally on here again! It took me no less than 24 TRIES to register back on here after forgetting my password (is it just me??) so bear in mind that I am by FAR the stupidest person on the forum.

THAT said-- I am posting pics of front and back of a pewter or lead (I just know it did NOT test for silver) piece with embossed "POR" in raised relief on one side, and incused shadow image on the other. A crown like shape is below the letters. Cannot see what the rest of the lettering is or might have been. Given this is the beach where the Portola Expedition camped in 1769 and also planted a cross, the letters REALLY intrigue me. Piece was found under a rock at VERY low tide after some storms.

Plus, on the reverse are a few intriguing "denticles" or what appear to be denticles.

But COULD this piece be that old? One local archaeologist examined it and believes its lead foil that would have been used on a modern wine bottle. I could ALMOST buy that but to me it doesnt quite fit. But what could it be? At BEST (for me) perhaps a pewter cargo tag or band used on a Spanish weapon during the 1769 expedtion? A 1700's pewter thimble remnant? At worst (for me) some modern aluminum can top remnant? But I can't seem to image what modern piece of metal would have such embossed lettering and crown mark. Anyway, I would welcome any theories.
Much thanks!

 

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[DizzyDigger]

Can'twork.. I believe without actually seeing it (physically) that
I'd have to agree with the archaeologist. Lead foil from the top
of a wine or champagne bottle.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Welcome to Tnet from Toronto cantworkthesite.

I can understand how the local archaeologist believed "that its lead foil that would have been used on a modern wine bottle."
The only letters visible, 'POR' might be short for 'PORT' ...this would be the most obvious guess.

But as DizzyDigger already suggested, without actually being able to physically hold and examine it... it could be anything really.

Dave

 

[cw0909]

Cantwork, the lead foil capsule, was ruled out in 1996 by the FDA
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/21/189.301

if it is a lead foil capsule. the portable antiquities scheme database
has some modern lead foil capsule you could look through
https://finds.org.uk/database/searc...ad/show/40/objectType/SEAL/broadperiod/MODERN

 

[cantworkthesite]

thank youcw0909-- I will peruse that database. I will say, just from looking on internet, it seems that the lead foil wine coverings are somewhat paper-y in nature while my piece, while thin, is very much metal. Just seems to me that the POR lettering is a tad old style for a modern trademark-- but maybe that is intentional. But I will throw this out to anyone who might know: any chance of old Mexico ornamental tin?

 

[cudamark]

I agree with your archie too.

 

[A2coins]

Good info. Nice find

 

[smokeythecat]

I'm not sure what it was. Not a button, not a bale seal, not a horse ornament, not a coin. I have a pic I'll try to upload it COULD be a tag for a PORT wine bottle, probably 19th century.

This is an example of a late 18th century PORT wine label in silver.

 

[Plug N Play]

Decanter Label

One can purchase from a very diverse selection of these ... and the older ones are collectible.
Were often made from silver, including hallmarks.

 

[cantworkthesite]

thanks for the PORT tage pic, smokeythecat... That definitely makes me stop to pause... I just don't know if such tags as in this picture are thin enough so that the letters show in reverse on the other side (I guess that would be the "embossed" effect?) as mine does. But I do wonder if my piece could be some thin pewter or tin tag of some sort-- perhaps a wine bottle tag, but maybe a cargo tag?

 

[smokeythecat]

Your piece has been stamped, so much more recent than the one I posted. It would probably not be pewter. Pewter tends to dissolve quite readily once it gets into the ground, maybe lead.

 

[ARC]

Portofino Wine wrap cap.

 

[gunsil]

I agree with the archie also. Were that a piece of lead from the 1700s that had been in the ground for so long it would have oxidized and been crumbly since it is so thin.