✅ SOLVED Found another button with an eagle on it. What is it?

[bignadad]

I found this today and it almost looks like a smaller version of his bridal rosette i found the other day.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/357292-found-today-eagle-crest.html

 

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[kuger]

Great Seal button

 

[bignadad]

Im trying to figure out exactly what it is. I did some research on this site and almost all the ones i see have some writing on the back. This one has no writing on it

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im trying to figure out exactly what it is. I did some research on this site and almost all the ones i see have some writing on the back. This one has no writing on it

Its definitely a Great Seal button 1902-present. It may not be true in every case but I believe that many of the Great Seal buttons without backmarks are non military issue replacements. Can you give us the exact diameter in millimeters?

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Its definitely a Great Seal button 1902-present. It may not be true in every case but I believe that many of the Great Seal buttons without backmarks are non military issue replacements. Can you give us the exact diameter in millimeters?

It may be also and I am just giving imo on it. That the ones without back-marks may date too the earlier time period 1902-1915s made by a manufacture that did not use back-marks. If you look @ the photo of the U.S. Army-Staff (or aka General Staff) button that I posted as example on What Is It a few weeks back http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/355794-button-looks-kinda-old-new.html those buttons (and also the posters button) did not have a back-marks and were made from the 1870s-1902 when the US Great Seal buttons came out. The same manufacture that made these (and maybe CBG may know the manufacture that made these since there is no back-mark) also may have had the contract with the Army too make US Great Seal buttons and they did not use back-marks like they did with the post civil war Army Staff button.

 

[creskol]

Hut .. are you suggesting that buttons with the Great Seal of the United States appeared prior to 1902?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

There are no Great Seal buttons prior to 1902. The far majority (and I have many 1902-1915 Great Seal buttons) have backmarks.

Many of the unmarked Great Seal buttons in my collection are cheaper made non military issue but I said many, not all. Its certainly possible that yours is military issue big. Give us the exact diameter may help.

I dont know what manufacturers used blank backs. Its possible there were more than one. Its certainly possible that your button Hut and Teds (on the other thread)are military but its just as likely if not more likely that its a later non military replacement.

I dont have time to study Teds or Huts buttons on the other thread right now but I posted a question there. I have some cheaper made 2 piece non military Officer Staff buttons from 1902-1915 I will post later if you wish that were made for reunions and it possible this is what Ted has.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

No i am saying that the company who manufactured the US Army Staff button from 1870 to 1902 with no back-mark started too make the US Great Seal button in 1902 with no back-mark.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

No i am saying that the company who manufactured the US Army Staff button from 1870 to 1902 with no back-mark started too make the US Great Seal button in 1902 with no back-mark.

Most of the Officer Staff buttons that I have observed are later non-military issue replacements made after 1902 purchased for reunions and such. I will post pictures later supporting my findings.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

I should rephrase that The manufacture who made the US Army Staff button 1870-1902 with no back-mark *could* have made the US Great Seal button in 1902 with no back-mark. It would be something too look into and I wish i knew the manufactures name of the ones like in the link I posted.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The site wont let me edit. I often struggle just to post here.
This is what I meant to say:


Most of the Officer Staff buttons that I have observed (without backmarks) are later non-military issue replacements made after 1902 purchased for reunions and such. I will post pictures later supporting my findings.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

In a different thread, BigCypressHunter asked me for the Great Seal button sizes listed in the Albert book as being MILITARY-ISSUE buttons (not civilian imitations). The military-issue sizes listed are 28, 23, and 16 millimeters.

 

[bignadad]

This one is just a 16th over 7/8" which would be 22.5 mm?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

The button's color is unusual, like something other than excavated brass.

Also, in the backview photo, it looks like it might be a cast 1-piece button -- meaning, not a "hollow" button.

Please some photos showing the back from an angle, rather than straight-down-on-it. That will let us see whether it is a 1-piece button or a hollow 2-piece button.

Bignadad, did you find that button with a metal-detector? I'm wondering because there are some Great Seal buttons which aren't made of metal. (If you found it with a metal-detector, it's a metal button, of course.)

 

[bignadad]

Yes i found it with a metal detector. If i remember correctly it hit at 80 on my AT Pro

Here are the pics

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5012364/treasurehunt/button/2013-06-12%2016.16.30.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5012364/treasurehunt/button/2013-06-12%2016.16.23.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5012364/treasurehunt/button/2013-06-12%2016.16.16.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5012364/treasurehunt/button/2013-06-12%2016.16.08.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5012364/treasurehunt/button/2013-06-12%2016.15.57-1.jpg

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

In a different thread, BigCypressHunter asked me for the Great Seal button sizes listed in the Albert book as being MILITARY-ISSUE buttons (not civilian imitations). The military-issue sizes listed are 28, 23, and 16 millimeters.

CBG, it appears all the GS buttons in my collection fall into those 3 sizes, even the aftermarket types.

Here are a few of the GS buttons in my collection that are unmarked. They range from old to new, metal to plastic, soldered shank to unsoldered, floppy shank and steel self shank.. I dont know what company made these but it appears that some are quality made military issue..

So I think the answer is some no backmarks are military, some are not.

 

[fyrffytr1]

One other small point to dating this button is the "rim" which didn't appear until 1910.