First Time Post - Suggestions on Cleaning a 1786 New Jersey Copper? - Rare Variety

[Silver Tree Chaser]

This is my first post. I'm looking for some helpful advice on this 1786 New Jersey copper that I found back in May. It's been soaking in mineral oil for the past three months, but this past weekend I closely examined the coin's surface. The obverse side with the horse head is in wonderful shape for being found in Southern New England; soil here is tough on copper coins. Plowed fields are brutal on copper coins, but I dug this Jersey Copper from a tavern site in the woods. The coins reverse has bonded with some of the dirt and likely has relatively mild corrosion. I only lightly brushed the coin's back side and some dirt came off with little or no loss of detail.

Try cleaning it further or leave it alone? What do you think? Please reply.

I know that if I clean it further, I may loose some detail. If it goes really bad, I could loose some patina and surfacing. Use a oiled tooth pick, pencil eraser, tooth brush? I've read all about the warnings in regards to cleaning coins, and I'm somewhat skeptical. I'll take a well-done cleaned coins over an untreated ugly coin with no eye appeal. Eye appeal is very important in a nice, old coin.

I want to make the right decision on this find. It's a fairly valuable and rare variety of a 1786 New Jerser Coppper. Colonial and Early American Coins by Bowers list it as a Maris 17-J Variety with a rarity scale of URS-8 – population estimated at 65 to 124 known examples. He values this variety as follows: Fine - $1000, Very Fine - $3000, E.Fine - $5000 (see attachements).











The very last pictures show the reverse about halfway through the three month soak in mineral oil without any brushing. Should I go further with soaking and light cleaning?


Thanks for looking and all suggestions.

Good Hunting,

The Silver Tree Chaser

 

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[grasshopper]

Cool find, I know some people on here like Don in SJ will be able to chime in with some advice.

 

[stefen]

I wouldn't touch the coin in any manner...if anything, have it professionally cleaned and slabbed.

 

[hogge]

First thing is....we'll have to see if it is a 17-J. (Who Id'ed it) Second.....If it is...it is very scarce....R-4 and 75-200 known. Third....the olive oil has coated it, so cleaning it with anything else will basically be futile. I'll have to look at it to see if it is the correct ID.(as I'm sure Don will also) I'll get back to you. As regards to having it "professionally cleaned" and "slabbed"----A Total Waste of Time and $!!!

 

[hogge]

Looks like who ever ID'ed it, got it right. I don't like that URS (Universal Rarity Scale). Makes people think that a coin is rarer, and more valuable than it is.

 

[Iron Patch]

Don't think there's any problem to keep soaking it, but at some point (maybe even now) the pitting will be more the problem than the corrosion, and it will be as good as it will be. I think if you put it out there for sale a real world price would give you about a net grade of VG-8, and that's only if it's as appealing in person as the first two pics. Looking at the last pic, I highly doubt it would hit $500, just not rare enough for people to fight for it, and that keeps the prices down. That price guide also seems on the high side, so all in all, I don't think there's much pressure here as far as doing the right thing for value, more about doing the right thing for a good find.

 

[hogge]

Don't think there's any problem to keep soaking it, but at some point (maybe even now) the pitting will be more the problem than the corrosion, and it will be as good as it will be. I think if you put it out there for sale a real world price would give you about a net grade of VG-8, and that's only if it's as appealing in person as the first two pics. Looking at the last pic, I highly doubt it would hit $500, just not rare enough for people to fight for it, and that keeps the prices down. That price guide also seems on the high side, so all in all, I don't think there's much pressure here as far as doing the right thing for value, more about doing the right thing for a good find.

Well said. I think a good sale price may be around $250-$300 myself. MOO. Even at VG-8, it's still a ground found copper. The prices given are for coins not dug. Most forget this on here. (Present company excluded)

 

[cudamark]

I wouldn't touch the coin in any manner...if anything, have it professionally cleaned and slabbed.

What do they use that is so special?

 

[hogge]

What do they use that is so special?

Nothing on earth, that is going to help a dug copper coin. I can tell you that! Just another way to extract money from you. Don't get me wrong, I have used grading services before, but have been somewhat disappointed with most for what it costs, and what I get back for grade. For the average person....they are a waste of $. Although, there have been several dug coins I've seen on here that have been graded surprisingly high for what I thought they might be.

 

[Don in SJ]

That is a nice NJ copper, yes as stated it is a Maris 17-J. The latest rarity I have on the variety has it down a notch to a R-4 (Very Scarce), I do have a NJ collector coming to my place later this month and I will see if there is another updated rarity list, but the one I have from a few years ago and the website Coinfacts, lists it R-4. With that said, take a very close look and see if you can tell if it might have been struck over another colonial, like a Conn copper. I have a photo of one in a C4 auction catalog from 2007 that is overstruck on a Conn copper. That coin sold for $200, and not sure if it were a grounder or not, but grounders with corrosion are almost always lower in price unless it is really rare. It does appear to be a bit funk in the lower left denticle area on the plow side and also just past and below the plow on the right appears to show evidence of a undertype.

I have been doing a distribution study of ground found NJ coppers for quite a few years now, and this would be the 3rd Maris 17-J in the survey. The other two being found in central southern NJ.

It would be a total waste to send the coin away for slabbing, if you intend to ever sell it, just put it on ebay as is and yes say it is a Maris 17-J variety. Almost all colonial coin collectors despise slabs by the way....

Since you soaked it in oil, the only further cleaning you can do is what you have done, so as Iron Patch has said, stop now or go ahead and try more time for that crud on the reverse, but without seeing the coin in person, cannot really say if furhter soaking will help or not or hurt. If you do try further, I would go carefully with a toothpick on the crud areas and see what happens.

Don