Finders keepers and dents run in the news again

[Turbo21]

https://apple.news/Aqk1_Kkv8QVWL8o-YD6qo3w

I want to believe the gold was there. I really do

 

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[GoDeep]

https://apple.news/Aqk1_Kkv8QVWL8o-YD6qo3w

I want to believe the gold was there. I really do

Thank you for the link. Though we already knew the FBI obtained a warrant to dig, so in that sense, this isn't new information, but it does fill in the details of what exactly was in their affidavit to obtain said warrant.

But this is all pre dig information, mostly irrelevant at this point post dig and the pressing question, did they find gold? To answer that question, we turn to information seized from the FBI 2 days after the dig concluded which unequivocally states no gold was found:

As it turns out, the holy grail of what they sought to uncover, the private communications between the FBI and the PA DCNR, were seized a few months ago between the FBI lead counsel KT Newton, and PA DCNR lead counsel Audrey Miner, where they, just two days after the dig concluded, confirm and discuss that nothing was found at the dig site and they even discussed how they were all disappointed.

Private communications are considered the most reliable evidence in cases and it's how the truth is almost always uncovered in investigations as people let their guard down in private personal communications and tell the truth, often memorializing the event in near real time as it is occurring. (emails, texts etc).

For whatever reasons, the FK group has never disclosed or acknowledged these seized emails as existing, despite them being available to the public for several months now.

Reading this link really makes me believe the FBI got a little bit of gold fever and put a little too much faith in ground scans and the intoxicating influence of excited and passionate treasure hunters convinced they were on the gold. Happens to the best of them!

 

[GoDeep]

Also, i just noticed it was actually the Philadelphia Inquirer that got this most recent information unsealed, not the FK groups attorney. It'll be interesting to read the rest of what they uncovered.

Here's another article from the Philadelphia Inquirer which gives some different information then the national AP article:

"The FBI did homework on Pa.’s lost cache of Civil War gold but came up empty, documents show" https://www.inquirer.com/news/gold-elk-county-fbi-civil-war-parada-art-crimes-20210624.html

 

[Bud Aurum]

why not?

Also, i just noticed it was actually the Philadelphia Inquirer that got this most recent information unsealed, not the FK groups attorney. It'll be interesting to read the rest of what they uncovered.

Here's another article from the Philadelphia Inquirer which gives some different information then the national AP article:

"The FBI did homework on Pa.?s lost cache of Civil War gold but came up empty, documents show" https://www.inquirer.com/news/gold-elk-county-fbi-civil-war-parada-art-crimes-20210624.html

Thanks GoDeep,

Note;
"Cluck noted that the FBI has not filed paperwork that explicitly states that nothing was found."
"Archer said that a turtle carving found on a rock near the proposed dig site was “very likely ... a KGC marker for that site.”

Your Bud Aurum

Conspiracy Super Heroes Tag team should be showing up soon... To save us from ourselves...

 

[smokeythecat]

Conspiracy Super Heroes Tag team should be showing up soon... To save us from ourselves...[/QUOTE]

I can't wait...Actually, yes, I can.

 

[GoDeep]

Note;
"Cluck noted that the FBI has not filed paperwork that explicitly states that nothing was found."

Conspiracy Super Heroes Tag team should be showing up soon... To save us from ourselves...

Yeah, i saw that too and the FBI's response is succinct and spot on "A spokesperson for the U.S. attorney's office in Philadelphia said that no such document was filed with the court because the dig came up empty."

Conspiracy theorists wouldn't have been appeased either way. The strongest evidence we have to date, the seized emails saying nothing was found, are pretty much about as iron clad as one can have when it comes to uncovering coverups and getting at the truth.

 

[3cylbill]

The gold was removed by the fbi and spirited away in the nite .......

 

[villagenut]

If I were the FBI I would definitely have found nothing....and complained about coming up emptyhanded.how dissapointing!

 

[GoDeep]

If I were the FBI I would definitely have found nothing....and complained about coming up emptyhanded.how dissapointing!

I agree 100 percent, time and again, we catch LE, FBI, politicians etc making public statements that are untrue or misleading and the only way to catch them in their lies, is to subpoena their private communications. It's how Hillary got caught with her illegal server in her house, through seized private emails and how FBI agent Peter Strozak was caught lying too, through seized text messages.

It's why the FK group early on was going after them (the FBI's private communications), as we know the truth isn't in their public statements, it's what they say privately when they think no one is watching that is the best evidence.

Well, Low and behold, a few moths ago, we finally gained access to some of these private communications and indeed, we learned no treasure was found. What is curious, is that the FK group has never acknowledged these emails. We also don't know if it was the paper that obtained them through a freedom of information request(like they also obtained the warrant information above) or if the FK's lawyer obtained them.

Bottom line, the evidence is very strong that no treasure was found.

 

[3cylbill]

all they had to do was let FK watch the dig like they promised instead the blew him off and dug and loaded the gold ..FK spent years doing EVERYTHING the right way only to get the bums rush . if there was nothing there why did they spend all nite digging and loading whatever was found ...

 

[GoDeep]

all they had to do was let FK watch the dig like they promised instead the blew him off and dug and loaded the gold ..FK spent years doing EVERYTHING the right way only to get the bums rush . if there was nothing there why did they spend all nite digging and loading whatever was found ...

Agreed, this would have all been put to rest had they just let observers at the site. However, your other assertions are pure speculation, not backed by any facts. We have no evidence any gold was found and we have no evidence any gold was loaded on any truck. In fact, we have evidence that shows no gold was found. We cant' simply ignore evidence because we want to believe a different outcome.

It's no doubt the FBI thought there may be gold there and it's no doubt they wanted to claim it for the US gov't should it exist, but in the end, they too got burned by a case of gold fever.

 

[3cylbill]

why cant the produce the video of the dig ? it's been over three years .why spend all nite digging and loading up whatever they found if there was nothing there ? these are very simple question yet nobody knows nuthin.....

 

[Bud Aurum]

Yeah, i saw that too and the FBI's response is succinct and spot on "A spokesperson for the U.S. attorney's office in Philadelphia said that no such document was filed with the court because the dig came up empty."

Conspiracy theorists wouldn't have been appeased either way. The strongest evidence we have to date, the seized emails saying nothing was found, are pretty much about as iron clad as one can have when it comes to uncovering coverups and getting at the truth.

GoDeep,
How do you know that the FBI agents did not conspire with each other before the dig? After all they definitely thought there was gold or something valuable.
For instance, any correspondence with each other should show disappointment. FBI 101.
They admittingly wanted to keep the loot from the state and out of courts, what lengths would they go?

Your Bud Aurum

 

[GoDeep]

why spend all nite digging and loading up whatever they found if there was nothing there ?

This is a great question and one that is now partly answered by this newest warrant evidence the paper uncovered. In the warrant, it was said that they had 24hrs to dig. Now, i don't know if that was continuous or accumulative, but it is a very strong circumstantial evidence for them to keep digging as their warrant was about to expire or had just expired.

Also, it wasn't "all night"(thats how legends grow), witnesses said they heard equipment until about 1am as i recall. Being up late to dig does not equal finding anything. You have to dig in order to see if anything was there. The fact they kept on digging into the night isn't beyond the scope of those excited to find something, we all know this first hand as treasure hunters.

why cant the produce the video of the dig ?

They can and did offer if you read the previous testimony of FK from several years ago shortly after the dig concluded. FK put in a FOI request for the entire file and the FBI records manager said if he parsed it down, they could have it for him in about two years (which means we would have at least already had some of the file a good year ago or so), but FK at the time indicated he was sticking with requesting the entire file. It is unclear from the testimony of FK whether there is still a pending FOI request from FK or if they withdrew it.

these are very simple question yet nobody knows nuthin.....

Untrue, i've been laying out the factual evidence for several years now as it becomes available.

 

[GoDeep]

GoDeep,
How do you know that the FBI agents did not conspire with each other before the dig? After all they definitely thought there was gold or something valuable.
For instance, any correspondence with each other should show disappointment. FBI 101.

Private communications are the golden goose of uncovering any conspiracy or lie. I don't know of any coverup cases where the private communications vindicated a suspect, they always without fail, implicate and it's why the FK groups attorney was seeking them.

I mean, sure, we could get into some movie plot double plant conspiracies to explain away the private communication, but to reasonably expect they may have gotten both the Lead counsel for the FBI and the lead Counsel for the PA DCNR to risk their law licenses and credibility to get in on the big lie and go along with it, knowing full well that there has to be at least a few hundred people who would know if gold was found and could leak the truth at any moment, including 50+agents, supervisors, lawyers, equipment operators, armored truck drivers, vault guards, assayers, antiquities examiners, smelters, etc etc strains any reasonable credulity.

 

[3cylbill]

The atomic bomb had tens of thousands of people working on it and NOBODY knew about it unit it went off . If they could keep that hidden they shure as heck could keep a little dig in dents run from being found out and they had dozens of machine gun toting agents to make sure......

 

[Bud Aurum]

FBI 101? If thats the case,

Private communications are the golden goose of uncovering any conspiracy or lie. I don't know of any coverup cases where the private communications vindicated a suspect, they always without fail, implicate and it's why the FK groups attorney was seeking them.

I mean, sure, we could get into some movie plot double plant conspiracies to explain away the private communication, but to reasonably expect they may have gotten both the Lead counsel for the FBI and the lead Counsel for the PA DCNR to risk their law licenses and credibility to get in on the big lie and go along with it, knowing full well that there has to be at least a few hundred people who would know if gold was found and could leak the truth at any moment, including 50+agents, supervisors, lawyers, equipment operators, armored truck drivers, vault guards, assayers, antiquities examiners, smelters, etc etc strains any reasonable credulity.

Go Deep, You certainly didn't mention the FBI's most intelligent agents. You don't think today's agents learned something from their superiors?

Movie Plot? Laying down cover if they find gold does not sound far-fetched to me.

As far as I know, unless you know more?
Everyone outside the FBI was sent home and the the dig was finished with their own excavator.
FBI agents job is to keep quiet.

 

[GoDeep]

The atomic bomb had tens of thousands of people working on it and NOBODY knew about it unit it went off . If they could keep that hidden they shure as heck could keep a little dig in dents run from being found out and they had dozens of machine gun toting agents to make sure......

This is not factually correct, the movies may try to portray it that way but it's untrue. First, of the 100,000+ working on it, only a small handful knew it was a nuclear bomb project so they didn't know and therefore had nothing to leak. They were just workers working on sub components and were not advised they were for a nuclear bomb program. 2nd. Several Soviet spies even infiltrated the Manhattan project with several of them being criminally charged! Declassified documents reveal The Manhattan project was known by most all intelligence agencies the world over, it was not a very well kept secret that we were working on a nuclear bomb. Some countries weren't aware of just how far along we were or how well it actually worked, but they knew we were working on nuclear bombs.

 

[Citiboy289]

Coast2Coast take on the story https://www.coasttocoastam.com/arti...ils-on-suspicious-fbi-dig-for-civil-war-gold/

 

[GoDeep]

Everyone outside the FBI was sent home and the the dig was finished with their own excavator.

I'm curious why you present this as a statement of fact? Where you at the site overnight documenting who came and went? Even the treasure hunter group testified they weren't there overnight during the dig. At this point in time, i don't believe anyone has gained access to the FBI manifest of who exactly was present that night.

FBI agents job is to keep quiet.

It's interesting, because on the one hand, here the FBI is painted as trustworthy when it helps the argument, but when it doesn't, they are painted as untrustworthy. Interesting dichotomy. The truth is, the FBI is made up of a variety of people with different backgrounds and upbringings. Some are honest, some are bad apples, just like every other group of people in the world,

Knowing this, it strains credulity to think that both the Lead counsel for the PA DCNR and lead counsel for the FBI would risk their reputations and law licenses for a group of lawless FBI agents who came to them with a plan to steal (i use the word "steal" loosely as i don't know if it would have been for personal gain or for the gov't) millions in gold and asking them to lie for them and cook the record for a bunch of FBI agents, many of them they probably didn't even know personally. Possible, yes, likely, no. We need to concentrate on the facts before us, not create could've, should've, would've scenarios to try to advance a narrative we favor.

Bottom line: Do you have any evidence that you can provide to us that FBI lead counsel KT Newton, and PA DCNR lead counsel Audrey Miner are part of this alleged conspiracy and are being dishonest in their private communications to each other? If not, we're just spreading what amounts to nothing more then gossip.