Find a bunch of these but have no clue...

[staydetuned]

And one more These things...

I've found quite a few, particularly at a homestead established in the 1850's and at a slightly later military site. Both in California... Always broken on one end, like in the picture. I have no idea what they were/are. Any idea?

Thanks for looking!

 

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[Retired Sarge]

Just a stab at it, maybe a cannon fuse like this one? If I am wrong I'm sure TheCannonballGuy will educate me. He's quite knowledgeable in that area!

Mike
USAF Retired

 

[staydetuned]

Hmm, that looks like it would make sense, especially at the military site. And it looks similar...

Thanks for the input Mike! Maybe someone can confirm...

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

An artillery friction-primer was the first thought that came to mind when I viewed photo #1. The item does look to be pretty close to the correct .185-inch diameter (and typical length) to be a Field Artillery friction-primer. But when I scrolled down to photo #2, I saw 100%-conclusive evidence that the item is definitely not a friction-primer. If you look at Ffuries friction-primer, you'll see that it (always) has two holes (on opposite sides) at one end of the primer, where the pull-wire passes all the way through the primer's main body. The item found by Staydetuned doesn't have the (two) holes for a pull-wire in its sides ...just the typical openings at the end of a piece of tubing.

 

[kuger]

blasting cap

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=nnWBTaGjII7GsAOD5oSIAg&ved=0CB4Q9QEwAw

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=BnaBTfb9DozksQOFhv3yAQ&ved=0CCYQ9QEwBQ

 

[DirtDigler]

We find those items frequently on Civil War sites. They are indeed friction primers for cannon. I have found 4 or 5 different varieties. Some were Confederate, some Union. And yes, they were different from North to South. They still make them for reenactments. But they are usually aluminum now.

 

[kuger]

We find those items frequently on Civil War sites. They are indeed friction primers for cannon. I have found 4 or 5 different varieties. Some were Confederate, some Union. And yes, they were different from North to South. They still make them for reenactments. But they are usually aluminum now.

Could very well be if they are from where I think they are..........

 

[Daedalus]

I tell you what I think it is , it looks like what we call the old Black Cap fuses for explosive . I have not seen one in many years , and they made quite a few types .
There timing was due to the length of the fuse case . Some were friction and some had to be lit . Both would go off if too much pressure was applied to the cap so they had to be handled with care .

I can not find a photo of one on the web so far but it does look like the type . I still have some live very old ones that we found in Utah and Wyoming when I was working out west blasting .

 

[kuger]

I tell you what I think it is , it looks like what we call the old Black Cap fuses for explosive . I have not seen one in many years , and they made quite a few types .
There timing was due to the length of the fuse case . Some were friction and some had to be lit . Both would go off if too much pressure was applied to the cap so they had to be handled with care .

I can not find a photo of one on the web so far but it does look like the type . I still have some live very old ones that we found in Utah and Wyoming when I was working out west blasting .

Basically what I provided links to above

 

[Daedalus]

I tell you what I think it is , it looks like what we call the old Black Cap fuses for explosive . I have not seen one in many years , and they made quite a few types .
There timing was due to the length of the fuse case . Some were friction and some had to be lit . Both would go off if too much pressure was applied to the cap so they had to be handled with care .

I can not find a photo of one on the web so far but it does look like the type . I still have some live very old ones that we found in Utah and Wyoming when I was working out west blasting .

Basically what I provided links to above

Not really the same , these are for Mining and Earth removal type Explosives , and are not for Weapon or Cannon use .
They started being used as a safer way to detonate Black Powder mixes and then went on to be use with Dynamite . The issue with them was they were very sensitive to pressure and many men lost there arms and lives by pressing the fuse to hard in the medium that was in use .

The timing on the fuse was the best item that these type fuses brought , it gave the miners time to leave the area . Although the timing was not always the length that they were rated at !

Also they could mix Nitro into a clay base and have a very powerful explosive compound and be able to tamp the hole solid with stemming . Many of the tunnels out west were made with hand Star drills and this type of fuse and explosive .

 

[kuger]

I tell you what I think it is , it looks like what we call the old Black Cap fuses for explosive . I have not seen one in many years , and they made quite a few types .
There timing was due to the length of the fuse case . Some were friction and some had to be lit . Both would go off if too much pressure was applied to the cap so they had to be handled with care .

I can not find a photo of one on the web so far but it does look like the type . I still have some live very old ones that we found in Utah and Wyoming when I was working out west blasting .

Basically what I provided links to above

Not really the same , these are for Mining and Earth removal type Explosives , and are not for Weapon or Cannon use .
They started being used as a safer way to detonate Black Powder mixes and then went on to be use with Dynamite . The issue with them was they were very sensitive to pressure and many men lost there arms and lives by pressing the fuse to hard in the medium that was in use .

The timing on the fuse was the best item that these type fuses brought , it gave the miners time to leave the area . Although the timing was not always the length that they were rated at !

Also they could mix Nitro into a clay base and have a very powerful explosive compound and be able to tamp the hole solid with stemming . Many of the tunnels out west were made with hand Star drills and this type of fuse and explosive .

I know full well,I am a seventh generation Hardrock miner in the Heart of the Calif. Motherlode

 

[staydetuned]

Hmm, well at least one thing is agreed - some sort of detonation device. That would make perfect sense...

Could very well be if they are from where I think they are..........

Where? Where?

 

[dozer dan]

just a couple variations

 

[rjs123]

It is a friction primer.

Ive found them in CW sites AND I have also found them at a colonial site where there was a Civil War Reenactment. So it is a friction primer for a canon but they may not be old. Was there ever a reenactment there?

 

[kuger]

It is a friction primer.

Ive found them in CW sites AND I have also found them at a colonial site where there was a Civil War Reenactment. So it is a friction primer for a canon but they may not be old. Was there ever a reenactment there?

Have you ever seen a blasting cap??I have used blasting caps so it is a blasting cap

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

It is definitely not a friction primer for cannons. All of those items had a hole in their sides where the pull-wire passed perpendicularly through the primer's main body. I'm absolutely certain about that statement. But I'm also a reasonable-minded man. If somebody can post a photo or a diagram showing an Artillery friction primer which had no such holes in its sides, I'd very much like to see it.

 

[rjs123]

It is a friction primer.

Ive found them in CW sites AND I have also found them at a colonial site where there was a Civil War Reenactment. So it is a friction primer for a canon but they may not be old. Was there ever a reenactment there?

Have you ever seen a blasting cap??I have used blasting caps so it is a blasting cap

Nope never used one. I also missed the post that said there was NOT a hole through it. My mistake. Sorry I seem the have riled you up a bit. Not my intent.

 

[kuger]

It is a friction primer.

Ive found them in CW sites AND I have also found them at a colonial site where there was a Civil War Reenactment. So it is a friction primer for a canon but they may not be old. Was there ever a reenactment there?

Have you ever seen a blasting cap??I have used blasting caps so it is a blasting cap

Nope never used one. I also missed the post that said there was NOT a hole through it. My mistake. Sorry I seem the have riled you up a bit. Not my intent.

No,not at all,just both came across wrong Ibeleive

 

[DirtDigler]

I spoke with Randy Klemm, Curator of the American Civil War Museum in Richmond and several others and here is what I found. Since manufacturing in the South wasn't as prevalent as in the North, they had to adapt by redesigning certain items to accommodate manual labor. Among these items was the friction primer. The design manuafactured in the North was a more complex arrangement involving a tube with another smaller tube attached perpendicularly to one end and a hole opposite it. After the priming paste was added to the tube, the friction wire was passed through the hole in the side and into the smaller tube, where it was crimped. A complex arrangement. The designers in the South took the main tube and cut a short slit down one side of the tube and after applying the priming paste inside the tube, ran the friction wire down inside the tube and wedged it into the slit, bending it at a 90-degree angle. Then the top was crimped and varnished or shellaced to keep it weather tight. Simpler to construct and without the machining needed by the Northern version.

Primers of this type were produced on Brown's Island, a short walk from Tredegar Ironworks and the American Civil War Museum, at the Confederate Lab during the war. Many of the workers were young women from the area.

http://www.tredegar.org/default.aspx

I am attaching a photo showing (from left to right) a pair of the Northern style primers, with their smaller tube and hole to accommodate the friction wire. The next pair are period primers from the field of battle showing the slit at the top of the primer. The next three are aluminum examples currently used by reenactors and skirmishers. Finally, a brass unfired example showing the crimped top and wire running down the tube, instead of across it.

On Friday the 13th, March of 1863, an explosion rocked Richmond when a friction primer was mishandled by a young woman, causing devastating destruction and the deaths of more than 45 workers. Here's a link to the story as related by David L. Burton in the "Civil War Times Illustrated".

http://www.mdgorman.com/Events/friday_the_13th.htm

Thanks to the North-South Skirmish Assoc. and the American Civil War Museum for your assistance!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

DirtDigler wrote:
> Then the top was crimped and varnished or shellaced to keep it weather tight.

But neither end of the Staydetuned's tube is crimped. If his tube with the clean-cut slit on one side of its end is a Confederate cannon friction-primer as described by the museum curator, many others just like it would be found at civil war battlesites. But none are. I'm going to ask y'all to take my word about that, because excavated civil war artillery relics have been my "business" for over 30 years.

There is a rare Confederate-manufactured friction-primer which closely resembles what the museum curator described. It has a slit which was cut horizontally across its tubular body, about 3/4-inch from one end. Then the 3/4-inch section was bent down at a 90-degree angle. Then a small hole was drilled in the tube directly opposite from the bend, to accept the pull-wire. I own several specimens of that type of CS-made friction-primer, but unfortunately I do not have a photo to post which shows them. I'll ask a friend to email me a photo of his specimens, and I'll post it here when he sends it.