Fake 1804 Dollar

Doug Mauck

Doug Mauck

Jr. Member
Sep 7, 2004
54
3
Topeka, Kansas
I'm in Zhejiang Provence, China for ten months and didn't bring my detector because I thought I wouldn't be allowed to use it here. WRONG! Using common sense, I could be finding all kinds of stuff. As far as I can see, no one has EVER gone treasure hunting with a metal detector here. The Chinese have been losing and burying coins and artifacts for centuries and it's still in the ground. A Chinese won't hardly pick up a coin on the ground that isn't theirs. Farmers bring items they have found while cultivating their fields to the markets and some bronze and pottery is 1500 years old or more! Gravesites from 2,000 years ago have disappeared, but the artifacts buried sometimes surface for modern discovery. A gold mine for a treasure hunter!
Because I can't hunt with a detector, I've been hitting the antique markets. I found this 1804 'silver?' dollar for about $10 and snapped it up at a market. When I checked it out on the 'net', I found that a real one would be worth a few million $ because there are only 15 real ones existing in the world. This one seems to have been in circulation because of the wear, but it has several giveaways that it's fake. One is that the clouds on the reverse side should be bigger. Another is that there shouldn't be a rim at the edge. Also, the profile is just a little off on the brow and the date should follow the curve of the rim. Other than that, it shows excellent workmanship and is easily worth $10 to me!
 

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Wow,I would never know the difference. Hope you come across some good stuff.HH
 

That is a heck of a piece.....Real or Not...The question I have is , What is it made of? It looks to be Silver, is that true.....Seeker :)
 

Fascinating find!! Of all the coins to forge, I wonder why that one? I would think it would be the most difficult to pass off as. Perhaps it was intended as a novelty.
Wish it could talk. It might have a real story to tell.
No other versions were made in 1804? Maybe it was a rejected version before they settled on the one minted. Really neat piece. HH
 

I'd love to be in your shoes right now.Sounds like a good place for finding "lost treasures" of all sorts.Knowing what to look for is the key.Be careful,the Chinese even make fake burial items ,heck they've copied just about everything I think.I know it's a communist country but don't they sell detectors over there? Buy a cheapie,if it's as unhunted as you think it is then you should still get some good results.Very cool coin,regardless if real or not it's worth 10 bucks.
 

Very interesting find!

Another thing is the portrait should be larger. And the lettering is crudely done, especially the round ones (the "B"and the "8"). It's possible it circulated but what looks like wear might be poor striking. It is the right size?
 

I think the 1804 coin is silver, but I don't know how to check it. It's the correct size, bigger than later silver dollars, I forgot how many mm. I'll weigh it on postal scales. The Chinese used a lot of silver coinage from the US and Mexico for several years from the 1800's into the 1900's when they started making their own after 1911.
I also found these 1882 Mexican Reales for about $4.50 each. I think they're authentic. They're all over the place, but usually for $10-$12 and a lot of 1882's. There are also an abundance of silver pesos.
Many metal detectors are outsourced to be manufactured in China, but I haven't been able to find any for sale here. Amazon.com won't ship a $100 Bounty Hunter here. I'd gladly leave it here if I could just use it for the rest of the time I'm here. Anything I'd dig up, I'd take for authentic. Burying stuff was the 'bank' in China for centuries, especially during the Cultural Revolution.
 

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I would get a detector ASAP, lots of opportunity! HH, Mike
 

Cool coin, great story! Maybe you could find a world war 2 era mine detector around there! Or possibly build your own. Tsgman
 

Cool coins, & story,,,
Good luck finding a machine, & Happy hutning~
 

That is a very crude fake. It is surprising that it would fool anyone.

As a previous poster noted, why counterfeit that date? Anyone that knows anything about coins has heard about the 1804 silver dollar.

Although 19,570 dollars were struck in 1804 they were all dated 1803 (in that era dies were used until they broke or were worn out). The US Mint did not produce any silver dollars dated 1804 to 1835. In 1834 - 1835 the Mint struck a few proof 1804 dollars to include in proof sets (their thinking may have been that they should include a dollar coin that is in circulation but was not in production so why not just make some). Again in 1859 restrikes were made of 1804 dollars for collectors who were clammoring for them.

The two types, 1834 -1835 (Original) and 1859 (Restrike) differ in some ways. The reverses are slightly different. The edges of the two types differ because the Original strikes were produced using open collars and the Restrikes were produced using close collars.
 

Klaatu said:
That is a very crude fake. It is surprising that it would fool anyone.

As a previous poster noted, why counterfeit that date? Anyone that knows anything about coins has heard about the 1804 silver dollar.

Although 19,570 dollars were struck in 1804 they were all dated 1803 (in that era dies were used until they broke or were worn out). The US Mint did not produce any silver dollars dated 1804 to 1835. In 1834 - 1835 the Mint struck a few proof 1804 dollars to include in proof sets (their thinking may have been that they should include a dollar coin that is in circulation but was not in production so why not just make some). Again in 1859 restrikes were made of 1804 dollars for collectors who were clammoring for them.

The two types, 1834 -1835 (Original) and 1859 (Restrike) differ in some ways. The reverses are slightly different. The edges of the two types differ because the Original strikes were produced using open collars and the Restrikes were produced using close collars.
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I do not find it surprising that it would fool anyone, unless that someone is a collector of coins or has a redbook in front of them,especially when found in a foreign country.
 

diggum,

Even if you didn't know what a silver dollar of that era looked like you have to admit that this one looks very crude. Look at how uneven the lettering is. That alone should make you suspect it could be a fake.

That being said, I would pay $10 for the coin as a curiosity piece.
 

Klaatu said:
diggum,

Even if you didn't know what a silver dollar of that era looked like you have to admit that this one looks very crude. Look at how uneven the lettering is. That alone should make you suspect it could be a fake.

That being said, I would pay $10 for the coin as a curiosity piece.
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Yeah your right,now that i've gone back and looked at it a little closer.The lettering is rather uneven from spacing to placement.I think I wrote that this morning while I was still half asleep and couldn't see straight yet! :D Take care Klaatu
 

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