Du long Yu quartz based new jade
- Thread starter desertau
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It's chalcedony var Adventurine. A very common inexpensive costume stone often used for large carvings.
For many years Adventurine quartz has been sold in it's preferred green translucent form with sparkles of Fuchsite mica crystals. The material shown in the OP was for many years considered to be inferior Adventurine and unmarketable due to the lack of Fuchsite, abundance of pyrite and inconsistent color. Today it's being marketed as a jade simulant even though jade isn't transparent, doesn't contain pyrite and is much tougher and rare. Quartz breaks easily, jade is virtually impossible to break.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It is a pretty variety of quartz coloring. Value is created by marketing a perception. If you perceive this as being equivalent to jade it's marketable value goes up.
I suspect the pyrite inclusions make this material difficult to finish where pyrite is present. Pryite oxidizes on fresh cut surfaces, and is quite fragile after it oxidizes (rusts).
For many years Adventurine quartz has been sold in it's preferred green translucent form with sparkles of Fuchsite mica crystals. The material shown in the OP was for many years considered to be inferior Adventurine and unmarketable due to the lack of Fuchsite, abundance of pyrite and inconsistent color. Today it's being marketed as a jade simulant even though jade isn't transparent, doesn't contain pyrite and is much tougher and rare. Quartz breaks easily, jade is virtually impossible to break.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It is a pretty variety of quartz coloring. Value is created by marketing a perception. If you perceive this as being equivalent to jade it's marketable value goes up.
I suspect the pyrite inclusions make this material difficult to finish where pyrite is present. Pryite oxidizes on fresh cut surfaces, and is quite fragile after it oxidizes (rusts).
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- Thread starter
- #4
Clay you know all of this very well, much better than I do. I did get a little more information about this find vs a similar stone I think you are referring too. The has the usual hard to follow Chinese to English translation;
There are some jadeite jades however that are very translucent from icy clear to green and variations in between
this is very expensive in China the translucent green fetching hundreds of thousands of dollars for a moderately sized carved pendant.
I do have a question about a nephrite found in Xinjiang it has some mineral silvery inclusion that is very stable. This piece was carved 5 or 6 years ago and the inclusions remain unchanged, Chinese call it Nail Strike Jade, I sent a chunk to and at the moment I canāt remember his name, he was in WSPA and active on Steveās forum he made jewelry and cut some stones for jewelry he made with this jade.
This is the piece from 5 or 6 years ago it canāt be pyrite but Iāve never found out what it is.
There are some jadeite jades however that are very translucent from icy clear to green and variations in between
this is very expensive in China the translucent green fetching hundreds of thousands of dollars for a moderately sized carved pendant.
I do have a question about a nephrite found in Xinjiang it has some mineral silvery inclusion that is very stable. This piece was carved 5 or 6 years ago and the inclusions remain unchanged, Chinese call it Nail Strike Jade, I sent a chunk to and at the moment I canāt remember his name, he was in WSPA and active on Steveās forum he made jewelry and cut some stones for jewelry he made with this jade.
This is the piece from 5 or 6 years ago it canāt be pyrite but Iāve never found out what it is.
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The market for "ice" jade is very new. There is no traditional source of transparent jade. All the "ice" jade comes from Guatemala - that material has only been available in Asia for about 4 years. The clear jades from Guatemala were treated with great suspicion in the trade for the 20 years or so since it was discovered but just recently there has been some demand. None of the Guatemala jades resemble traditional Asia/India jades in color or texture so I suspect they will be an expensive novelty for some time to come.
I've seen a lot of the black material you show. It's most often carved by local lapidaries. When I inquired about the material in the early 1980's my Thai lapidary contact steered me away with a chuckle. I asked what the inclusions were since they don't tarnish and he asked me with a wink if I knew of any natural metallic minerals that didn't tarnish. That led me to suspect it may be a man made or enhanced material. My mother had a collection of carvings of this same black material, it's heavy, tough, doesn't seem to take a good polish on the black portion and the brassy parts didn't tarnish in the 50+ years she had them. I'm not sure exactly what it is but it isn't natural jade.
The GIA published an article on the Guatemala jades just this spring.
I've seen a lot of the black material you show. It's most often carved by local lapidaries. When I inquired about the material in the early 1980's my Thai lapidary contact steered me away with a chuckle. I asked what the inclusions were since they don't tarnish and he asked me with a wink if I knew of any natural metallic minerals that didn't tarnish. That led me to suspect it may be a man made or enhanced material. My mother had a collection of carvings of this same black material, it's heavy, tough, doesn't seem to take a good polish on the black portion and the brassy parts didn't tarnish in the 50+ years she had them. I'm not sure exactly what it is but it isn't natural jade.
The GIA published an article on the Guatemala jades just this spring.
Loadingā¦
www.gia.edu
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- Thread starter
- #6
Clay Iām sorry but that is not my experience and no matter just how good your Thai guy is my friends are pretty good too. My wifeās friend is a retired university professor her ex husband was governor in one of the Provenceās she has written a dozen books detailing the story and works by the master carvers across China. From 2008 I began traveling in China and with our friend have met, been to their studios become good friends with many of them.
Iām saying this and at the same time Iām bothered by the fact I know just how knowledgable you are and of your reputation. but I canāt see how I could be misled on these things. I know too many different people in the government that confirm in my own mind and through my own personal experience. I could share a lot of stories like the time an entire bus load of tourists I was traveling with were invited to an event at the national museum in Hangzhou one night, this was a private birthday party for Chinas most important living artist, the event attended by governors and other officials across China, Chinese secret service had control of the whole area. the tour I was traveling with a group of ceramic artists from the US were given full access past the velvet rope because our friend wanted my wife and I to attend, Iād refused the first invitation because I didnāt want to abandon my new friends so he invited my whole group.
My first time in China, In Shanghai old town in the high end jewelry shops secured in private viewing rooms Iāve looked at some of these translucent imperial green carvings with price tags in US dollars that were hundreds of thousands of dollars, so I donāt know what to say our personal experiences are somewhat at odds? How can these two things coexist I believe in your reputation and words I trust, I feel conflictedā¦
Let me do some checking, see if I can get more info on this Nail Strike Jade, the Jadeite too, I really canāt see the artists I know touching Jades that are treated, why would they risk their reputation?
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- Thread starter
- #7
The lighting in the closeup of the snake isnāt very good, that jade is green although the same artist carved a leopard head ring for my wife in black jade with same silver spots.
One of my friends books on Amazon
(Deleted....Sorry, violates rules to post link selling on a 3rd party site unless a supporting vendor)
Iāll send her a note asking about the silver inclusionsā¦
One of my friends books on Amazon
(Deleted....Sorry, violates rules to post link selling on a 3rd party site unless a supporting vendor)
Iāll send her a note asking about the silver inclusionsā¦
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Politeness and good manners are the essence of the China you know. Very wise people.
My "Thai guy" was in the 1970's and 1980's he mostly procured and cut rubies, oddities and some sapphires for my business. I have no idea why he steered me away from the black material - he was always very polite. He was also very aware that if he were to ever deceive me on a deal it could become a political matter. If you know Thailand in the 70's you know that was all the incentive a businessman needed.
The translucency of quality jade has always been a large factor in it's appeal and value. Translucency and transparency are different qualities. The "silk" of even the most transparent jades is what creates the value - not whether you can see a printed page through the jade. It's that lovely soft glow and warmth that makes the most valuable jades. I've seen mutton fat jade that was so translucent it appeared ready to melt. It wasn't transparent whatsoever but the appearance was very deep. It was a highly cherished (and guarded) old family piece.
There are some really exceptional jades in private collections all over Asia. I think it would be very difficult for anyone to become an expert in Asian "jades" although when I worked with Dessa Goddard she professed to be one.
And that makes my point that many Asian jade dealers have different ideas about what "jade" consists of and that has little or nothing to do with the mineral composition of the "jade". It's more of a cultural difference than a scientific disagreement but some take it as a challenge. There is no challenge. These stones trade on their beauty and appeal not the technical definition defined by experts.
My "Thai guy" was in the 1970's and 1980's he mostly procured and cut rubies, oddities and some sapphires for my business. I have no idea why he steered me away from the black material - he was always very polite. He was also very aware that if he were to ever deceive me on a deal it could become a political matter. If you know Thailand in the 70's you know that was all the incentive a businessman needed.
The translucency of quality jade has always been a large factor in it's appeal and value. Translucency and transparency are different qualities. The "silk" of even the most transparent jades is what creates the value - not whether you can see a printed page through the jade. It's that lovely soft glow and warmth that makes the most valuable jades. I've seen mutton fat jade that was so translucent it appeared ready to melt. It wasn't transparent whatsoever but the appearance was very deep. It was a highly cherished (and guarded) old family piece.
There are some really exceptional jades in private collections all over Asia. I think it would be very difficult for anyone to become an expert in Asian "jades" although when I worked with Dessa Goddard she professed to be one.
And that makes my point that many Asian jade dealers have different ideas about what "jade" consists of and that has little or nothing to do with the mineral composition of the "jade". It's more of a cultural difference than a scientific disagreement but some take it as a challenge. There is no challenge. These stones trade on their beauty and appeal not the technical definition defined by experts.
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- Thread starter
- #9
Clay, Iāve never been to Thailand and know nothing of he politics or anything else from back in those days. In 1976 I was riding tailboard on an old American La France 1250 gpm fire engine my world was much smaller. China was a far away place my experience of it then the occasional night with chef Chung king and a can opener.
My wife was in the jewelry business she had and still has connections with a lot of factories in China, and had an office in Shanghai and at the jewelry center in San Francisco, she was semi retired when we met but when you are doing something you love you never really stop.
Iām new at this and donāt consider myself anything more than a fan, but the last 18 years have been a crash course of sorts, I have seen the good stuff, the the bad stuff and everything in between, traveled to the factories and some mines owned by friends. One friend sent me 6 tons of softball sized quartz type stone but it was difficult for carvers here to work, the Chinese carvers use different techniques to cut and polish, they can make that stone look amazing with clean details and a beautiful polish. The western carvers I gave samples too complained it undercut, so the 6 tons became garden rock.
Our Chinese friends were still impressed with it, we had two avocado trees in the back yard one a bacon avocado the other I donāt remember but those trees began making fruit in 2 or 3 years, by the second fruiting season the avocados were huge the bottom of the fruit easily the size of a large grapefruit and they were creamy and delicious. The trees were surrounded by this new jade from China and everyone swore it was the power of the jade, lol. It was a good story and everyone now wanted some of this rock for their yards. Guess like you say itās all about the story with jade.
So Iām still curious about that silver inclusion but my wife seems pretty certain itās natural, an xrf test might provide some answers too so Iāll follow up with some pawn shops when I get a chance.
My wife was in the jewelry business she had and still has connections with a lot of factories in China, and had an office in Shanghai and at the jewelry center in San Francisco, she was semi retired when we met but when you are doing something you love you never really stop.
Iām new at this and donāt consider myself anything more than a fan, but the last 18 years have been a crash course of sorts, I have seen the good stuff, the the bad stuff and everything in between, traveled to the factories and some mines owned by friends. One friend sent me 6 tons of softball sized quartz type stone but it was difficult for carvers here to work, the Chinese carvers use different techniques to cut and polish, they can make that stone look amazing with clean details and a beautiful polish. The western carvers I gave samples too complained it undercut, so the 6 tons became garden rock.
Our Chinese friends were still impressed with it, we had two avocado trees in the back yard one a bacon avocado the other I donāt remember but those trees began making fruit in 2 or 3 years, by the second fruiting season the avocados were huge the bottom of the fruit easily the size of a large grapefruit and they were creamy and delicious. The trees were surrounded by this new jade from China and everyone swore it was the power of the jade, lol. It was a good story and everyone now wanted some of this rock for their yards. Guess like you say itās all about the story with jade.
So Iām still curious about that silver inclusion but my wife seems pretty certain itās natural, an xrf test might provide some answers too so Iāll follow up with some pawn shops when I get a chance.
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I saw this during a search and just wanted to add the Chinese characters for the DuLong Jade
ē¬é¾ē
ē¬é¾ du2 long2 (Named for the DuLong people in Yunnan province)
ē yu4 (it means jade)
If you look on youtube for examples there are many videos in chinese about this jade.
Here is the baidu link in chinese about the jade.
Here is a link about the DuLong people in Yunnan province (again in chinese)
ē¬é¾ē
ē¬é¾ du2 long2 (Named for the DuLong people in Yunnan province)
ē yu4 (it means jade)
If you look on youtube for examples there are many videos in chinese about this jade.
Here is the baidu link in chinese about the jade.
Here is a link about the DuLong people in Yunnan province (again in chinese)
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- Thread starter
- #11
Clay, I have information on the nail strike Jade and I was incorrect about it being nephrite it is Ruyang Yu, it is however naturally occurring.
In the images two tea cups carved by Zhang Kerdow in plum blossom (Ruyang Yu) the nail strike Jade and plum blossom jade are different varieties of the same thing.
In the images two tea cups carved by Zhang Kerdow in plum blossom (Ruyang Yu) the nail strike Jade and plum blossom jade are different varieties of the same thing.
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