Double-chambered strap-handled pottery - pre columbian?

Deangreen

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I got this at an auction that had some so-called pre-columbian pottery pieces. Could this be pre-columbian and what would this vessel be used for? Since it lacks any ornamentation I figured it had a utilitarian use. Our cat was intrigued by it and kept wanting to smell and lick it. Any ideas would be very much appreciated.
 

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Nice piece! Beautiful cat! I have a box of different "pre-Columbian" pieces, including a jade necklace from Argentina (seller said). I have tried for 5 years--here in San Diego where there are lots of exotic art places--problem is, no one will authenticate them. I have asked appraisers I know, including one art appraiser who has helped open up collections at the Smithsonian--and they won't offer a written opinion, even for their $150 fee (w/ stamp and signature). My only guess is that so much of this stuff has been reproduced over the last 500 years that there is no reason for them to take a chance unless the piece could be "priceless", and they can turn to labs and such.........just my thoughts from watching this stuff for 60 years................b
 

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wedding vessel ?

Thanks. A Google search of Native American wedding vessels revealed similar designs, but were mostly decorated. This is plain with no inscriptions or decorations. It is large and very sturdy. I wonder if it was designed as a communal ceremonial vessel to be reused for each wedding?
 

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This is either an original or reproduction pre-columbian Tairona Double Spouted Vessel from the Tairona region, ca. 1000 to 1550 CE. The Tairona lived in circular house platforms with areas of the houses divided for labor by gender. Ceramic manufacture seems to have been the realm of the women in the household, and small burnishing stones used for smoothing the surface of pottery prior to firing have been found in their areas. Jars like this one were made specifically to be placed into tombs, perhaps filled with libations.
 

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really nice piece
 

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Nice piece! Beautiful cat! I have a box of different "pre-Columbian" pieces, including a jade necklace from Argentina (seller said). I have tried for 5 years--here in San Diego where there are lots of exotic art places--problem is, no one will authenticate them. I have asked appraisers I know, including one art appraiser who has helped open up collections at the Smithsonian--and they won't offer a written opinion, even for their $150 fee (w/ stamp and signature). My only guess is that so much of this stuff has been reproduced over the last 500 years that there is no reason for them to take a chance unless the piece could be "priceless", and they can turn to labs and such.........just my thoughts from watching this stuff for 60 years................b

Once it's out of the ground and taken off-site it looses all providence. That's why archaeologists get so pissed off. Anybody's guess of the age or authenticity without sophisticated equipment to examine it. If someone could make it in a village 600 years ago someone can make it in their garage now.
 

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This is either an original or reproduction pre-columbian Tairona Double Spouted Vessel from the Tairona region, ca. 1000 to 1550 CE. The Tairona lived in circular house platforms with areas of the houses divided for labor by gender. Ceramic manufacture seems to have been the realm of the women in the household, and small burnishing stones used for smoothing the surface of pottery prior to firing have been found in their areas. Jars like this one were made specifically to be placed into tombs, perhaps filled with libations.


I agree.
 

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Give it a finger-flick. If you hear a ping it was likely fired in a modern kiln. A dull thud, while not conclusive, could mean it has great age. As I said, this test is not conclusive but can provide a starting point.
 

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Once it's out of the ground and taken off-site it looses all providence. That's why archaeologists get so pissed off. Anybody's guess of the age or authenticity without sophisticated equipment to examine it. If someone could make it in a village 600 years ago someone can make it in their garage now.
True, Mexicans have been making forgeries since the early 19th century to sell to Americans collectors. Even the Peabody museum acquired fakes. Here is a great little read that gives a brief detail of it... http://resources.conservation-us.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2015/02/osg014-09.pdf
 

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Give it a finger-flick. If you hear a ping it was likely fired in a modern kiln. A dull thud, while not conclusive, could mean it has great age. As I said, this test is not conclusive but can provide a starting point.

This ^

It's a positive test. If it's high fired it's not precolombian. If it's low fire it might be precolombian.

I'm guessing it's a modern high fire replica. It's a lot thinner than most of the Tairona pieces and the clay doesn't look quite right.

I once used this simple test to stop an auction scheduled at Bonhams. The department head was new and I saved his job by revealing his "incredible" buy of a collection of Colima precolombian figures was a scam. He became a friend after that incident and still asks for the occasional opinion about a piece.

There is a surprising amount of ignorance when it comes to "professional" precolombian pottery assessment by auction houses. Without provenance you will have a hard time finding a high end auction house to handle a sale. Without a high end auction house or sound provenance you will find it difficult to sell any precolombian pottery for a decent price. Too many fakes out there.
 

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The base makes me think that it's not that old?
 

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Pre-columbian Tairona vessel is authentic, unfortunately...........

Unfortunately, it was broken while being shipped to a collector of pre-columbian pottery. The collector sent the broken pieces back to me and confirmed it was ancient and of the Tairona culture. Knowing that this vessel is indeed authentic and feeling guilty that this vessel survived hundreds of years only to be destroyed by my poor packing, I had it restored by Mr. Joey Hartley (Ancient Artifax) (see photo). He also agreed it was ancient. He did a great job and it is proudly displayed in my Man Cave.
 

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You could have had Thermoluminescence testing done while it was broken and had a positive creation date.

95% of Tairona objects on display or for sale are demonstratively fakes. Even in a broken state a scientifically proven Tairona piece from antiquity has considerable value due to the uncertainty of "expert" opinions.
 

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Yes, thermoluminescence testing would be more definitive. The collectors opinion was based on 1. magnetometric tests showed it to come from the Santa Marta area, 2. there were dendritic manganese on the surface, 3. the walls were as thin as 2.5 mm (modern fakes are much thicker), 4. exam of wall breaks suggest ancient firing, 5. correct type of black 'wash' over the tan surface, 5. correct location and shape of bottom ring, 6. correct convexity of bottom of 'tank', 6. expected surface wear effecting the black 'wash'.

Would this be enough info to convince a buyer that it is authentic?
 

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Yes, thermoluminescence testing would be more definitive. The collectors opinion was based on 1. magnetometric tests showed it to come from the Santa Marta area, 2. there were dendritic manganese on the surface, 3. the walls were as thin as 2.5 mm (modern fakes are much thicker), 4. exam of wall breaks suggest ancient firing, 5. correct type of black 'wash' over the tan surface, 5. correct location and shape of bottom ring, 6. correct convexity of bottom of 'tank', 6. expected surface wear effecting the black 'wash'.

Would this be enough info to convince a buyer that it is authentic?

Depends on the buyer I guess. Good luck with your project. :icon_thumleft:
 

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It's always a treat (for me, at least,) when I'm following a thread in a forum like this, and I run into a link back to my own material; in this case, sections of the catalog that I created for my daughter, to go along with my personal collection of pre-columbian artifacts, which she'll eventually inherit.

I realize this thread goes back a couple of years, and that the OP might not see my response, but since I actually know quite a lot about this subject, I felt compelled to chime in anyway. It's a shame that the OP's Tairona vessel was damaged in transit, but guy who repaired it did a great job. It's a cool thing to keep in a man cave--as long as it doesn't creep you out that it was stolen from a grave!

In 1972--almost half a century ago--I was a student working toward a degree in anthropology, and as part of my undergraduate thesis, I did archaeological fieldwork in the area where that Tairona piece originated. I watched as teams of guaqueros (pot hunters) ripped through a Tairona graveyard that was on private land, outside the adjacent archaeological preserve. No trowels or sifters or tiny paint brushes for these guys, because there was no science involved. They worked with pick axes and shovels, and if they struck pottery (THUNK!), well, that was good, because it meant they were on top of something. Many of the Tairona nobles were buried in large, heavy, red clay urns with seperate lids. Offerings, including gold and semi-precious stone jewelry, was placed inside the urn with the deceased, and other offering jars, like that double stirrup-spout vessel, were arranged in a circle around the large urn. The guaqueros didn't have any use for the heavy burial urns, or the grinding stones, or anything that was broken during the excavation of these elaborate burials. They were mostly in it for the gold and the jade, and for the better ceramic pieces, which were selling for good prices in the city of Santa Marta. That Tairona cemetery, some 10,000 burials representing 1,000 years of history, was completely destroyed by the guaqueros, and that's a tragedy that can never be undone. There's a very high probability that the OP's Tairona vessel was dug up by one of those same guaqueros, and sold to an artifact dealer, who in turn sold it to a tourist. Through at least the mid-1970's, pre-columbian artifacts were popular souvenirs for well-heeled tourists visiting Colombia (prior to the rise of the drug cartels). There was no restriction on their export, and no problem bringing them into the US as duty free antiques. All that has changed, of course. (Boy, has it ever changed!)

By virtue of its age, the Tairona piece is a treasure, but that doesn't necessarily translate into high dollar value. Such things are worth what a buyer is willing to pay; there are many fakes on the market, so if you can't prove the provenance (the "where did it come from,") Tairona ceramics are very difficult to sell.

Rick Quinn
 

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