dodecahedron ( again still)

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Still, no one has figured out what these are with 12 holes ranging in 12 sizes. Many have been found. My guess is, if we put our minds together we can figure it out! Or hurt our skulls trying

News - Roman-Era Dodecahedron Discovered in England - Archaeology Magazine

LINCOLNSHIRE, ENGLAND—Live Science reports that a well-preserved dodecahedron was discovered in a farmer’s field in […]

www.archaeology.org

 

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[Red-Coat]

Enigmatic items indeed. At least 116 of them have been found across Europe, with 33 found in Britain… all associated with Roman occupation between the 2nd and 4th centuries. There’s also one icosahedron, found in Germany.

They range in size from 4 to 11 centimetres (1.6 to 4.3 in). None have any inscribed letters or numbers and they rarely show any sign of wear from usage, usually being in excellent condition. Several have been found in coin hoards, suggesting that they were valued objects or had some association to coin-making skills. Their prestige is supported somewhat by similar objects made of gold having been found along the Maritime Silk Road in South-East Asia that are presumed to reflect Roman influence on later trade with China. Curiously, there’s no mention of such objects in any contemporary accounts, nor any depictions of them.

They’re too light to function as a weapon, such as a mace-head (unless purely symbolic or ceremonial); the lack of any markings tends to rule out any kind of measurement device; at least one of them lacks the holes needed for use as a spool-knitter of the kind used in glove making (for which bronze would be an unusual choice, and the technique is unknown before the 16th Century); the extent to which they seem to have been valued makes it unlikely they were some kind of toy.

That leaves the possibilities that they had a purely decorative or symbolic use and may have had religious significance or seen use in fortune-telling or divination. One other suggestion is that they may have been produced to test the skill of metalsmiths, demonstrate proficiency as part of a qualification process, or as showpieces to prospective customers.

 

[Doubter in MD]

Per the article, this one is the size of a grapefruit, but they come in golf ball size, too.

P.S. I know Red-coat already gave the size range, but I like using comparisons to common objects. It gives some perspective.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I wonder if the holes sizes are all arranged in the same order on each example. That would mean something. But I have no clue what.

 

[Joecoins]

Has not anyone yet seen these being used to make gloves? Different hole sizes for different finger sizes. Size differences among objects to make child's gloves all the way up to giant persons double layered gloves?

 

[Red-Coat]

Has not anyone yet seen these being used to make gloves? Different hole sizes for different finger sizes. Size differences among objects to make child's gloves all the way up to giant persons double layered gloves?

Yes; I mentioned that possibility in my reply above. They're known as 'spool knitters'. However, at least one of the unknown items lacks the holes necessary for it to function as such. Also, the technique is unknown before the 16th Century and these items are Roman in origin. Additionally, bronze would be an unusual choice for such an item in Roman times and such a function does not explain why the Roman ones were apparently regarded as valued items, nor the existence of later similar items in Asia made from gold.

 

[Joecoins]

The only one I saw without holes wasn't in the dodecahedron shape.
If there is gold ones that is definitely more interesting. I haven't seen the gold ones.
I thought in a time of need it might be faster to make them out of brass then carving them.
Do we know for sure when the technique was really developed at not just the first time a record of it was?
Do we know for shure it was roman made and not from somewhere else?
I'm not fighting for this idea, just thought it is a decent theory.

 

[Red-Coat]

The only one I saw without holes wasn't in the dodecahedron shape.
If there is gold ones that is definitely more interesting. I haven't seen the gold ones.
I thought in a time of need it might be faster to make them out of brass then carving them.
Do we know for sure when the technique was really developed at not just the first time a record of it was?
Do we know for shure it was roman made and not from somewhere else?
I'm not fighting for this idea, just thought it is a decent theory.

Correct that there is an unholed example in the form of an icosahedron, but it's regarded in the same archaeological class as the dodecahedrons:

Gold examples in similar forms from Thailand (too small to be functional spool knitters and found in context as beads):

First known reference to spool knitting is 1535. The technique may well be somewhat earlier, but unlikely to be as much as 1300 years earlier.

Roman 'origin' is based on multiple instances of archaeological context at Roman occupation sites throughout Europe and occurrences in Roman coin hoards. Another cultural influence or ethnicity of the makers can't be ruled out.

 

[Joecoins]

To me the symbols on them look like they are only decorations. I got native made wood tools for making gloves with decorations.
Maybe they were used to braid rope or hair?

 

[Joecoins]

Any info on the alloy they are made from.
Could be an alloy of just lead and copper...
?

 

[Red-Coat]

Any info on the alloy they are made from.
Could be an alloy of just lead and copper...
?

For that latest find in Lincolnshire, initial XRF scans suggested it to be about 67% copper, 26% lead and 7% tin. Subsequently that was corrected to about 75% copper, 18% lead and 7% tin, which was I believe from more accurate analysis.

Either way, that’s a very high lead content. High levels of lead are well-known for assisting the flow of bronze alloys in complex moulds but result in items which are brittle and impractical for any kind of robust use.

 

[Joecoins]

I think the higher lead stuff is also more from far east...
I Was just looking at the gold ones again Maybe those are just coincidentaly similar.
They do look just like beads not functional objects. If you take apart the gold ones to their parts, You would not have any pentagon shaped peices...
Dodecahedron is also the simplest shape to use to make a cube bead into a more round shaped bead.