Did the Spanish know about telluride ore and how to process it?

[UncleMatt]

Hi All,

I am curious if anyone has some verifiable evidence to offer that shows whether or not the Spanish miners in the American SW were aware of telluride ores, and also how to process them to recover the pay metals from them? If you do, please post it! To be more specific, were they aware you could fry telluride ores to remove the gold and silver? And if so, what methods did they use? Links, references, photos of artifacts, etc., would be appreciated!

 

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[Oroblanco]

tag post - I don't know the answer but look forward to someone else knowing it.

 

[UncleMatt]

I expected to be inundated with opinions on this, and I'm shocked it didn't turn out that way! lol I hope someone can offer some input on this, as I have no idea. but I think it is important to establish.

 

[Oroblanco]

I expected to be inundated with opinions on this, and I'm shocked it didn't turn out that way! lol I hope someone can offer some input on this, as I have no idea. but I think it is important to establish.

From what I can find, it looks like tellurides were not known about prior to the middle 1800s so definitely the Jesuits would not have processed them. A very good article on how to ID the various tellurides is at:
Identification of Tellurides

A key thing about the tellurides is that they are silvery in appearance, which could have easily been overlooked as worthless not realizing it has gold in it.

Good luck and good hunting amigo I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[doc-d]

Perhaps, there is much in history that has been lost, or hidden from us……..
Still it would be interesting to read about the earliest known processing…..

 

[UncleMatt]

Indeed it would. I wish dustedyou would come in and comment here, but he hasn't been on in awhile and I will just call him instead. I'm hoping he has some real world experience when it comes to processing telluride ores. You should see his back yard! I was shocked at the processing equipment he has back there, including high temperature furnaces and retorts.

But I'm inclined to agree with the idea it was unknown to them, because it was outside their historical experience with gold ores.

 

[cactusjumper]

U.M.,

I believe the process for separating gold from tellurides was discovered/invented just after 1900. Couple of stories on who actually figured it out, one a man, the other a woman. Both stories involve doing their laundry.

That would put it past the time of Jesuit power in Mexico, or the United States proper.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[UncleMatt]

Joe, can you shoot me some more info on those 2 people you referred to above please?

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe, can you shoot me some more info on those 2 people you referred to above please?

Uncle Matt,

I don't believe a specific person is ever mentioned. (Wrong again)
______________________________________

[FLOTATION]

"The flotation process consists of producing a mineral concentrate through the use of chemical conditioning agents followed by intense agitation and air sparging of the agitated ore slurry to produce a mineral rich foamconcentrate. The process is said to have been invented by a miner who watched the process happening while washing dirty work clothing in his home washing machine."

This account from "Western Mining" page 232:

"There is a charming tale-unfortunately untrue-that oil flotation was first discovered by a woman, Carrie J. Everson, who lived in the Denver area. The story goes that Carrie was hand-laundering either ore sample bags or work overalls soiled by sulphides and oil and that her attention became focused upon the black froth which rode up on her suds. Upon investigation she found the froth to be composed of metallic sulphides, whereupon she patented her process and presumably made a mint. Alas for romance! Upon investigation it appears that flotation was gradually worked out by unglamorous engineers......."

It is said that "flotation" originally came from New Zealand.


Good luck,

Joe

 

[UncleMatt]

Welp, no one has come forth with any evidence the Spanish knew of telluride ore, or how to process it. I am going to check with some contacts I have over at the University of New Mexico, and a couple of others, and hope to have something to report one way or the other. At this point I am doubtful they had that knowledge.

 

[cactusjumper]

Uncle Matt,

As I stated before, it may be that it was known under a different name.

[hess·ite

noun \ˈheˌsīt\




Full Definition of HESSITE

: a mineral Ag[SUB]2[/SUB]Te consisting of a lead-gray sectile silver telluride often auriferous and usually massive

Origin of HESSITE

German hessit, from Henry Hess †1850 Swiss chemist in Russia + German -it -ite]

Don't know $#!t about rocks, so this may be way off base.

Take care,

Joe

 

[lastleg]

Uncle Matt

You might try to get a copy of "Across the San Juan Mountains" by T A Rickard, 1907.
He was a mining engineer who rode horseback to all the important mines in SW Colorado in 1902
and chronicled the ores, faults and milling processes he encountered.
His journal, complete with photos and diagrams, was published in1980 by Bear Creek Pub Co. in
Ouray, Co.
At the Camp Bird mill he witnessed 60 stamps weighing 850 lbs each with a drop of 6-8'' crushing ore
100 times per minute resulting in 180-190 tons per day. The pulp passed through cloth screens of
26 mesh and #29 wire. It was then discharged upon silver plated copper tables 54''x 16'. The
pulp proceeds through classifiers which distribute it among the concentrators, namely Wilfley
tables and Frue vanners. The coarse material goes to vanners that have corrugated belts, the finer
pulp goes to plain belted vanners and the slime passes on to the Wilfley tables. The tailing is
delivered to the cyanide plant and pumped into vats having a capacity of 275 tons apiece where
it undergoes solution for 9 days.
The total extraction of gold is fully, sometimes more, than 90% of assay returns from crude ore,
which carried 2 oz per ton when Rickard visited.

I really can't imagine the Spaniards had much luck with the telluride ores of the San Juans.

Pikes Peak Charlie has informed me that ore roasting works on some Teller Co ores. If one found
a chunk of sylvanite this procedure would be a fun way of testing it out.

 

[lilorphanannie]

my guess is yes, the spanish knew how to identify and process telluride ores. but perhaps not efficiently. and they did not recognize them as such. reference the book "deremetallica"written by agricola in 1556 and translated by our president herbert hoover into english.

 

[UncleMatt]

Correct me if I am wrong: telluride ore is basically roasted, reacted with salt, the tellurium off gases, and then the gold separates into its elemental form in very small particles that must be collected on foam?

 

[Springfield]

Correct me if I am wrong: telluride ore is basically roasted, reacted with salt, the tellurium off gases, and then the gold separates into its elemental form in very small particles that must be collected on foam?

Yes, that's kinda the way I understand it. Microscopic gold is recovered after breaking its bond with the Te.

 

[lilorphanannie]

it depends on if you want to recover the tellurides. they can run 30% to 60% on the weight. and its sells for @ $60 /lb. there is a well known auro -tellurium mine in sonora state,mexico ,near the little town of moctezuma. its called the la bambolla mine. its was discovered by a cowboy, and initially mined for gold . it averaged some 200 opt for the first 200 or so tons. it is now mined for telluride mineral specimens, and is considered to be a world class locality for telluride specimens. i have seen 500 opt with calaverite here and 200 opt with petzite. but its hard to find. i know of only know of four locations with true tellurides and those values are usually in the dead center of the vein structure.

 

[UncleMatt]

Interesting. However, I have also heard of and seen samples where telluride ore was simply heated to high temperatures, and the gold would actually bubble out on the surface of the ore. I wonder under what circumstances and type of ore that would occur with. I have heard a tale that prospectors camping around Telluride, CO actually figured out the ore had gold in it because some was used in a fire circle, and the heat from the fire caused gold to come out on the surface of the fire ring rocks. i wonder if there is any truth to that.

 

[lilorphanannie]

any metal in its native elemental state will melt if the temperature gets to that melting point. and if the host rock is porous enough to allow it to seep out. with a telluride ore it depends on what else is in there. its seldom that its just a telluride ore. to get optimum results its necessary to find out exactly what you have. i like to see if the ore will concentrate. crush it to a fine powder and see if it will concentrate in a gold pan. if you can afford it send in a couple of ounces to an assay lab for a fire assay. also i see you might live in the colorado /new mexico area. contact someone in the metallurgical department either in the colorado school of mines or at the mining school in socorro,new mexico. through their website .and see if they will identify your rocks via a petrologist. they have done this for me for free. they may also recommend a process for extraction. if your ore or concentrate is rich enough say @ $7/per pound of cons. many refineries will receive it and process it. i am not a metallurgist but this is what i do or have done.