deep water wrecks in the Gulf of Mexico

Here is a good reply to this program from Peter Hess (reposted without permission)

If one needed any further evidence that the federal archaeological bureaucracy wants to get into the treasure salvage business, here it is. The US Minerals Management Service is supposedly focused on leasing offshore waters for oil and gas development. But treasure galleons are far more interesting.

As an aside, I've worked closely with Senator John McCain's military attache on a proposed piece of legislation entitled The Navy Warbirds Act ("NWA") which would legislatively confirm that former US Navy aircraft which had been "Stricken" from the list of active US Navy assets (ironically enough, the Admiral who wrote this order during WW II was none other than Sen. McCain's father!) were in fact legally abandoned. Under the US Constitution's Property Clause, only Congress can obtain and abandon federal property. Hence, the need for the NWA. An administrative accommodation made the passage of the Act unnecessary (at least in Congressional estimation).

So why do I write this? I hear you asking yourselves. Because John McCain will reign in the bureaucratic campaign to gain control of the world's undiscovered sunken treasures and historic shipwrecks. This is a quintessentially private sector arena where there are high risks and concommittantly potentially high rewards. Our taxpayers' dollars have no business being spent on the search for deepwater Spanish galleons. Your support of John McCain's candidacy for the President will help to ensure this.

Peter Hess
 

I say let the government go after the deep water spanish wrecks.let them deal with spain too.maybe it will makes things better for us shallow water salvors.
 

The RFI does not talk about salvage of Spanish vessels, it talks of the preservation. I am a big John McCain supporter and would certainly like to see him in office, but the RFI (Request for Information) seems like it would do us harm.

What it sounds like to me is the Government is trying to identify these wrecks for preservation and protection from Oil drilling.

I think it also serves to prevent companies like Odyssey coming in and salvaging them.

Read for yourself.

This responsibility to ensure proper management and protection of the nation's cultural heritage is derived from several pieces of legislation including: the National Historic Preservation Act (NHPA) of 1966 (as amended), the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), and the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act (OCSLA) of 1978.
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Recent research also has shed light on the routes used for shipping during the 16th through the 19th centuries. This research suggests that there may be a higher potential for earlier shipwrecks (ca.16th-18th century) in Ultra-Deep Water (UDW) of the Gulf of Mexico (particularly in the Sigsbee Escarpment, Keathley Canyon, DeSoto Canyon, Mississippi Canyon, Green Canyon, and Walker Ridge areas). MMS studies to date have largely discounted the presence of Exploration or Colonial Period shipwrecks in significant numbers in the GOMR because of the paucity of reported shipwrecks from those periods in the secondary literature, most of which stranded along the coast. What has not been explored thoroughly are losses far from land associated with other causes (such as fire, structural failure of the hull, foundering during a storm, or armed attack). Since the likelihood of anyone surviving such a catastrophe at sea also diminishes considerably, the likelihood of its location being accurately reported is almost nil. Generally, such ships would have been reported as simply "lost at sea." Colonial Period shipwrecks in the UDW almost exclusively would be associated with the Spanish fleets leaving annually from Veracruz in Mexico bound for Havana, Cuba, and eventually for Spain. Hundreds of ships, laden with goods from Mexico, made the passage to Cuba. Prevailing winds and currents in the Gulf dictated that fleets sailed north northwest from Vera Cruz to about 26deg North Latitude before turning east for Florida. Losses of ships on this route are poorly understood and are the focus of this research. The MMS has an interest in amassing and assessing this body of research as part of our mission to protect submerged cultural resources from potential effects of oil and gas activity.
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Exactly how much authority and jurisdiction do they have, or think they have? We're talking way offshore.
 

Why is it a bad thing if the Odyssey makes new discoveries which would rot away anyway on the bottom of the ocean if they didn't use the technology available.
I think the shareholders, and the collectors, and the museums could use the artifacts.
I am truly amazed at the stories I read starting with (Treasure Island) and wish I could be involved in seeking treasures, as far as treasure hunting goes.
I can see how Mel Fisher never gave up the search, searching for treasure can get to you, like an obsession!
 

mauijim1 said:
Why is it a bad thing if the Odyssey makes new discoveries which would rot away anyway on the bottom of the ocean if they didn't use the technology available.
I think the shareholders, and the collectors, and the museums could use the artifacts.
I am truly amazed at the stories I read starting with (Treasure Island) and wish I could be involved in seeking treasures, as far as treasure hunting goes.
I can see how Mel Fisher never gave up the search, searching for treasure can get to you, like an obsession!
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They never said anything about salvage! And by identifying them, they will claim them as "protected cultural resources", and will be off limits to the private sector.

Or, maybe, the US government has decided to increase its bullion supply by going after Spanish Gold and Silver! ;D ;D ;D
 

The worst was a flight deck fire on July 29, 1967, while the Forrestal was on station in the Gulf of Tonkin, off the coast of Vietnam. A fire started when a rocket from one plane on deck misfired and struck the fuel tank of an A-4 Skyhawk that was about to be launched. The subsequent explosion and fire killed more than 130 sailors and injured another 160 before being brought under control several hours later. That incident is considered to be the worst shipboard fire in the Navy’s history. Narrowly escaping injury that day was Cmdr. John McCain, who was in his Skyhawk, waiting to launch from the flight deck, only feet away from where the explosion occurred. Three months later, still operating from the Forrestal, McCain’s plane was shot down during a mission over North Vietnam. He was captured and held prisoner for the next five years.
 

The FORRESTAL is at the Newport Naval Station pier one mile north of my office at the Naval War College.

The latest plans for her are to be sunk offshore similar to the ORISKANY, but if McCain is elected President then that may change, it wouldn't look good to scuttle the commander in chief's carrier!!


Pirate Diver
 

piratediver said:
The latest plans for her are to be sunk offshore similar to the ORISKANY, but if McCain is elected President then that may change, it wouldn't look good to scuttle the commander in chief's carrier!!
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I think it would add to the attraction!

I doubt he cares. I am sure it would be better than scrapping it all together!
 

What good will it do if "protected cultural resources" found but left at the bottom be of any good to any one?
Said sites and cultural resources should be available to the general public for educational and historical purposes and not the few that can dive and observe.
Just my opinion
Bradyboy
 

ScubaDude said:
Exactly how much authority and jurisdiction do they have, or think they have? We're talking way offshore.
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The MMS or minerals management service controls every square mile of ocean floor in the US exclusive economic zone. They lease these block for exploration for oil and gas.

I feel that they have no business regulating the salvage of cultural resources. As for protection, the MMS should be responsible for reporting locations of shipwrecks to prevent accidental destruction from the activities of petroleum exploration and nothing more.

Salvaging the contents of shipwrecks should be governed by the admiralty courts, and not become property of the government.
 

Sometimes you can find shipwrecks and other submerged cultural resources by reading government reports with titles like:

Adendum to Cultural Resources Survey and Inventory Results for the proposed 36-inch Gulfstream Natural Gas System, LLC., Mobile Bay to Florida Three League Line: Reroute in Federal Waters.

;)
 

mad4wrecks said:
So why do I write this? I hear you asking yourselves. Because John McCain will reign in the bureaucratic campaign to gain control of the world's undiscovered sunken treasures and historic shipwrecks.
Peter Hess
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So why do I have trouble believing this?

In an election year, I have, in my long life, heard any number of well - stretchers is a polite term.

No one man runs the country any more. It is run by lobbyists who pay off the cartel of men who run the country to run it for their benefit. The payback, by the way, is on the order of hundreds to thousands of times the amount spent on lobbying. In other words, if you spend $10,000, that could be worth $1,000,000 or much more. Gotta cover the overhead.
 

piratediver said:
The FORRESTAL is at the Newport Naval Station pier one mile north of my office at the Naval War College.

The latest plans for her are to be sunk offshore similar to the ORISKANY, but if McCain is elected President then that may change, it wouldn't look good to scuttle the commander in chief's carrier!!


Pirate Diver
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i think it would better serve our country at the bottom of the sea as a sanctuary for re population of needed fish and their young


In regards to Olivia's list...if you want to chart out the deep water wrecks for the said purpose of protecting them from oil and natural gas Riggs, more power to ya....but i think its more like your gonna find all the new gold they need to fill fort Knox...based on the location of the area's to be checked...better to have the private sector find and catalog it then send in the friggin navy to retrieve and deliver the goods....either way as long as this crap doesn't invade the shallow water wrecks sites that we the people should and will find and salvage...I'm OK with it
 

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