Dagger sword ID Needed

[Woodland Detectors]

This was found in a garden in 1915. NC Mountains
Can anyone help with the ID of this artifact??
Thanks!

 

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[72cheyenne]

Kinda has that Knights of Pythias look.

 

[traderoftreasures]

looks like its from rome. nice find you got there

 

[johnnyi]

I agree with Cheyenne that the hilt has the "secret society" look. It's funny that the blade is so wrong for the hilt, having that blood groove and rounded point cutting into the blood groove too close. Is it possible the blade did not originally go with that handle, but was instead shaped out of a french or german bayonett? Any grind marks to suggest this

 

[Woodland Detectors]

The brass appears to have been cast around the tang of the blade very tightly. We cant find any distinguishing markings on the sword to put with any society or affiliation of such. The blade has definitely been cut down.

 

[vayank54]

Weird. It does have that secret society looks doesn't it and yes the blade does not looks right for the handle. It looks like the blade might have been broken off and it may look like it's turned the wrong way because it has been filed or ground down quite a bit. I've seen quite a few civil war swords that had the blade broken and were used for corn knives and such. Cool whatever it is.

 

[johnnyi]

The brass appears to have been cast around the tang of the blade very tightly. We cant find any distinguishing markings on the sword to put with any society or affiliation of such. The blade has definitely been cut down.

Mike, there were a lot of generic sword and dagger designs sold around the turn of the century for societies. C. E. Ward, Henderson-Ames, and Pettibone were a few who advertized these kind of things. The odds are very poor that the handle was cast around the balde, but much more likely the blade was fitted to the handle after perhaps, the cheaper theatrical" blade was removed. The purposely rounded tip might also suggest this was put together as a 'toy' for a boy, rather than a man.

p.s. It's probably basically the same kind of deal as this, where I took a broken Ames sword blade and sharpened it to a point, and then fit it into an existing unrelated dug hilt. You'd swear they belonged togather, but of course they don't.

 

[traderoftreasures]

i notice one on the arms in the image is a cross

 

[Woodland Detectors]

The brass appears to have been cast around the tang of the blade very tightly. We cant find any distinguishing markings on the sword to put with any society or affiliation of such. The blade has definitely been cut down.

Mike, there were a lot of generic sword and dagger designs sold around the turn of the century for societies. C. E. Ward, Henderson-Ames, and Pettibone were a few who advertized these kind of things. The odds are very poor that the handle was cast around the balde, but much more likely the blade was fitted to the handle after perhaps, the cheaper theatrical" blade was removed. The purposely rounded tip might also suggest this was put together as a 'toy' for a boy, rather than a man.

p.s. It's probably basically the same kind of deal as this, where I took a broken Ames sword blade and sharpened it to a point, and then fit it into an existing unrelated dug hilt. You'd swear they belonged togather, but of course they don't.

Agreed. It would have taken a skilled craftsman to get blade so tight as it is indeed.



Yes, I see that Trader. Intersting

 

[72cheyenne]

Here's one real close.

http://arms2armor.com/Swords/pythias2.htm

 

[traderoftreasures]

looks like it was some gang bangers sword nice id fellows

 

[Tony in SC]

I agree,, in a way? I think it is a Secret society retro fit but the blade was not from a sword. It looks like an Austrian bayonet blade because of the wide blood groove. A sword would not have a blood groove that far up the blade, if any at all. What ever it is it is cool. Tony
PS. Knights of Colombus??

 

[intimer]

i notice one on the arms in the image is a cross

looks like a sword in pants and the other side too but with a D handle.

 

[IronSpike]

Here's one real close.

http://arms2armor.com/Swords/pythias2.htm

Nice ID 72cheyenne and cool sword Mike

 

[PBK]