✅ SOLVED CW lead finial help??

[gtoast99]

CW lead finial help?? solved - most likely carved bullet

Hey folks! I have a question for some of you Civil War diggers.

I found these two yesterday. The one on the left is obviously a brass cartridge box finial. The one on the right is made of lead. My first thought on digging it was that it was a lead cartridge box finial. I've found a similar but smaller lead cap box finial in the past, so that's why my mind jumped to that conclusion.

But it appears much more similar to a scabbard tip finial. So I tried to search for one, and I have found references to lead scabbard tips online, but no pics.

Still a third option that some have suggested is a carved bullet, but I seriously doubt that. It's rather small and looks designed that way to me. In addition, I don't see any evidence of knife marks or other signs of carving.

Thoughts??

 

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[TheCannonballGuy]

Well... first, its body is too long-&-pointy to be a cap-box or cartridge-box finial. Those kinds of finials are short-&-round, like the brass one you show next to the lead object. Scabbard-tip finials are more pointed and longer than cap/cartridge-box finials.

Some people have suggested that similar-looking lead objects are a cast pistol-bullet with its casting-sprue never having been cut off. With some of those objects, that has turned out to be the correct ID.

But I don't think your lead object is a cast bullet with an uncut sprue. A bullet's entire body is perfectly symmetrical. The curving lower sides of your object's "nose" are asymmetrical ...meaning the curve on one side is not a mirror-duplicate of the other side.

Therefore, in my opinion, it is a carved bullet.

The base of a scabbard finial is cylindrical, so that the brass sleeve can grip it. The base of your lead object is circular but it is too short for the scabbard-tip's brass sleeve to get an effective grip on. That being said, a soldier may have carved a bullet to serve as a replacement for his lost scabbard-tip finial. But if so, it didn't work for long, because he lost the replacement too.

There's a simple way to tell whether it is a lead finial or a carved bullet. A factory-made lead finial would have been solid-cast, in a "bilateral" mold. (For example, bulletmolds are a bilateral mold, meaning each half of the mold-cavity is identical to the other one). So, the object cast in it will have a mold seam running entirely around the object, from top to base. Clean every bit of dirt and crust off of your find, and look for the mold seam. If there is no mold-seam on opposite sides of its indented waist, it is a carved bullet.

 

[gtoast99]

Thanks for the incredibly well reasoned response. I cleaned the dirt as best I can, and I still see no evidence of any knife marks from carving a bullet, but neither do I see any mold seam. So I'm leaning more towards a very well carved bullet. I have read many allusions to lead scabbard tips online, but with the absence of an example to compare to, I obviously can't use that as an ID. In any case, I'm quite happy with it either way

Thanks again! Time for a green check, I think.

 

[gtoast99]

I did finally find ONE example of a lead tipped scabbard finial to compare to. It doesn't have exactly the same shape, but I'm sure there were variations. In any case, the "base" part does appear to be much longer to better fit the end of the brass tube.
http://www.thecivilwarlimberchest.com/Reamped Site/Relic Page/Marks Collection/Links/3704.htm

EDIT: Amazing what happens when you have the right search terms. Here's another example of a lead tip:
http://www.cwartifax.com/cgi-bin/Display_Item.asp?1030

I suspect you may be spot on that it was intended to be a scabbard tip finial, it just wasn't very good at it!