CW era find...

[bravowhiskey]

Cool story friends.

Had a few guests join me in further Bravo Ranch adventures this weekend. "thrillatthahunt" and "texan connection", as well as a turkey hunting friend of mine. There was a lot of md'g and turkey huntin' goin' on.

I can't say a lot of good stuff was found, but at least one very cool find was in the offing.

Fellow md'r "texan connection" hit a good signal at the old cabin site and dug down about 8" to reveal 1 piece of the object in the following pics.

The next day he yells out he has found the other piece about 150' on down the hill twd the creek equally deep and well worse for the wear.

..."US" emblazoned on a thin oval disc. is this what is left of a belt buckle, or ammo pouch or??



More of this story to follow in "todays finds"

Thanks for the help.
Bravowhiskey

 

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[Alec(Iowa)]

Belt Buckle

What is left of a Union belt buckle, with the lead melted off of the back. That means the soldier wearing it might have been captured by the confederate, and they took the buckle, melted the lead off, and used it to make bullets.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Looks like my US plate I smashed with a shovel last month..

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Unfortunately, without the attachment-hooks and lead-solder filler, there's no way to know whether it is was a buckle or a cartridge-box plate.

It looks kinda small in those fingers ...and you didn't give us any size-measurement. Please make the best, most precise (in 1/8th-inch increments) estimation you can about it's original (undamaged) width and height. There's a chance it is a rare "small" Oval US buckle or plate, because some of those have come from pre-war "Pioneer" army forts and encampments in Texas.

 

[bravowhiskey]

Unfortunately, without the attachment-hooks and lead-solder filler, there's no way to know whether it is was a buckle or a cartridge-box plate.

It looks kinda small in those fingers ...and you didn't give us any size-measurement. Please make the best, most precise (in 1/8th-inch increments) estimation you can about it's original (undamaged) width and height. There's a chance it is a rare "small" Oval US buckle or plate, because some of those have come from pre-war "Pioneer" army forts and encampments in Texas.

Sorry Cannonball Guy...I knew measurements would be in order...

L = 3 1/8" to 3 1/4" x 2"

 

[RJGMC]

You are lucky to hunt with Rick and Albert. Rick knows his Tesoro and Albert is really hard to keep up with. Surprised Rick did't find the first half and Albert the other!

See you guys again, don't know when.

RJGMC
HI BOB!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Thanks for the precise measurement estimates. (I knew it would be difficult to do, because of the damage.) Your estimates put it right in between a "medium-size" (46mm by 78mm, plus or minus a millimeter) and the common large-size (56mm by 87mm, plus or minus a millimeter). The medium-size is super-rare, even more rare than the small-size, so the statistical odds favor yours being a large-size. Oh well. I had to check with you, because in the photo it looked smaller than the usual size. Still, a dug-in-Texas one is an uncommon find.

 

[bravowhiskey]

CannonballGuy...we all know who to turn to for info of this nature. You are the tops, Sir.

I did not realize you would be measuring in mm. Mayhaps I could try to measure using those standards. And a heart felt thank you for the efforts. You always give 110 percent.

See ya,

BW

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I appreciate y'all's confidence in me, and the respect y'all give me. I try hard to be worthy of it.

Regarding your Texas-dug plate's measurments:
Actually, I'm not using millimeters by my own choice. I very much dislike having to use ANY metric measurements. They are not what I grew up with. When I use millimeters, it's only because that's what the relevant reference-book uses. (In this case, the O'Donnell-&-Campbell buckle-book.) Or in some cases, it's the given caliber of a 20th-Century projectile, such as a 9mm bullet or a 57mm artillery shell.

 

[bravowhiskey]

Sir,
I have remeasured using metric std. mm. Included are pics with new measurements...



The length is just about right for med....78mm considering the condition, but no way could stretch to the Large measurement of 87mm
The height is just between, as you stated. But is basically 50mm. The bottom of the plate is some flared out and the top somewhat flattened they kind of cancel each others excess and should be right at 50mm. Again no way it could be hammered out to stretch to 56mm as a Large size.
What is your idea on this Cannonball Guy?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

First, thank you for doing the additional labor of re-measuring the plate (using a Millimeters scale this time), and re-photographing it. You did great at that. The photo showing the scale, with measuring-lines drawn for comparison, is very helpful.

The dimensions I gave you in a previous reply are the compiled average of many variations. The smallest "large" Oval US plate is a late-war version, measuring 53mm in height.

Being so extensively "crinkled" -- especially the edges -- it's a really tough call.

The plate's left end looks bent inward, which shortens the plate's total length by several millimeters.

Also, in several places the "raised rim" on the plate's bent edges looks narrower than on an undamaged plate. In the "back-view" photo, the bending-under of the plate's upp rim is clearly seen. That could subtract a few millimeters from its original height.

I suspect the way to know for sure is to physically lay your plate-skin on top of an undamaged large one, and super-closely compare them. You'd be able to tell how much your plate's left end got shortened by crushing inward, and if the upper and lower rims are crimped inward enough to have been the large version, or not.

Wish I could be more helpful, but due to the damage and having only photos to examine, it's just to close for me to call "with absolute certainty." If I was really pressed to make a decision one way or the other, I'd have to go with large.