CW bullet ID needed - ***SOLVED***

[ModernMiner]

Does anyone know what kind of CW bullet this is?
It has a post inside the cavity like a Williams cleaner bullet, but as you can see it's not a Williams cleaner.
I thought maybe it was just a stray piece of lead stuck in there and tried to pry out, but it's definitely part of the bullet.

Who can solve this mystery?

Thanks,
MM

 

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[timekiller]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

I can tell you what I think MM.
I think it's a .58cal Williams Cleaner bullet
Take Care,
Pete,
http://www.acwbullets.com/bulk_civil_war_bullets.htm

I'll say this it's wierd that it's concave in the bottom so it might be some part of a spuce from mold

 

[timekiller]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

How about a ( Gardiner's Patent Explosive Bullet )



Y616 Gardiner's Patent Explosive Bullet

Measures: D .573 L 1.109 C N/A

Cavity: Nozzle

Reference: MM#532

Price: $195.00


http://www.acwbullets.com/Y616.htm

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

I can tell you what I think MM.
I think it's a .58cal Williams Cleaner bullet
Take Care,
Pete,

I'll say this it's wierd that it's concave in the bottom so it might be some part of a spuce from mold

How about a ( Gardiner's Patent Explosive Bullet )



Y616 Gardiner's Patent Explosive Bullet
Measures: D .573 L 1.109 C N/A
Cavity: Nozzle
Reference: MM#532
Price: $195.00
http://www.acwbullets.com/Y616.htm

Thanks Pete.
I'd love to have a $195 bullet, but I doubt I'd be that lucky.
Let's see what some other CW pros say.
-Doug-

 

[timekiller]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

I can tell you what I think MM.
I think it's a .58cal Williams Cleaner bullet
Take Care,
Pete,

I'll say this it's wierd that it's concave in the bottom so it might be some part of a spuce from mold

How about a ( Gardiner's Patent Explosive Bullet )



Y616 Gardiner's Patent Explosive Bullet
Measures: D .573 L 1.109 C N/A
Cavity: Nozzle
Reference: MM#532
Price: $195.00
http://www.acwbullets.com/Y616.htm

Thanks Pete.
I'd love to have a $195 bullet, but I doubt I'd be that lucky.
Let's see what some other CW pros say.
-Doug-

I hear ya! Yea I'm no civil war pro for sure.But I've handled plenty of bullet in my life.
Not gonna be many choices I think for your find.Other then what's stated but it's your call. Just trying to Help!
Take Care,
Pete,

 

[timekiller]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

Can you see any writing around the edge?Also the length may help someone else that's a pro.


On good dug specimens one can read "S. Gardiner Jr. Shell Patent Secured" on the bottom of the rim. These bullets/shells were meant to explode after entering the body causing severe damage.

Measures: D .577 L 1.127

Cavity: Conical with a protruding nozzle in the center

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

Speaking as a civil war bullet digger and dealer for over 30 years, I'm quite certain the .58-caliber Minie-ball dug by ModernMiner is neither a Willaims Cleaner nor a Gardiner Explosive minie. (Timekiller, thank you for posting the excellent photos which show the proof of that to the forum's readers.) The Willaims Cleaner base-stud has a large dimple in its center ...and the Gardiner Explosive's nozzle has a large hole going all the way through it, into the minie's interior.

ModernMiner's minie is a typical "generic" version of yankee-made .58-caliber "3-groove" minie. Diggers typically called it a 3-ringer ...but what you see on its body is grooves, not rings (which are raised, not "indented').

I can say with ceertainty that there is no exact (nor even "nearly" exact) matchup for MordernMiner's minie in any of the various reference-books on civil war bullets.

Some people here who are familiar with civil war minies might think the large stud in the cavity of ModernMiner's minie is a "teat" ...which a few varieties of civil war minies do have. But that stud is much larger than any "teat" seen in the "teat-cavity" minies.

I'm also quite certain that ModernMiner's minie did not leave the factory -- or the bulletmold -- in the form we see in his photo (having a large stud-like projection in its base-cavity). Meaning, it was modified by somebody, most probably a soldier, after its original manufacture and issuance to the troops.

I can think of a possible reason a soldier modified this minie. There are two varieties of civil war bullets which were manufactured with a similar-looking stud projecting from the bullet's base. One is a Williams Cleaner (as shown in Timekiller's photos). The other is a Dimmick ...which actually has a thick stud projecting from from the center of a conical base-cavity. Perhaps a soldier had seen one of those varieties, and just for fun, decided to add a base-stud to a generic .58-caliber 3-groove minie. So, he made a hole in the minie's cavity and forced a stud into it. (Notice that the lead stud is tilted sideways, and the stud's bottom has a flattened spot, possibly from being "tapped" into the hole the soldier made.)

 

[timekiller]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

As I said I don't do much civil war stuff.(yet) Way I see it if it wasn't for the stuff I go after there wouldn't even been a civil war. But you can kill my theory purdy quick by checking the end of the nub sticking out.You may have to check it well cause I'm thinking that it's a bullet that either flipped around in the air and hit something or it done it as it was coming to the end of it's flight path & the ground bent it cause it hit something the rim is bent & the nub is bent.The hole may be packed with hard dirt. The diameter is the exact as yours but I don't know the lentgh.
Reguards,
Pete,

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

Speaking as a civil war bullet digger and dealer for over 30 years, I'm quite certain the .58-caliber Minie-ball dug by ModernMiner is neither a Willaims Cleaner nor a Gardiner Explosive minie. (Timekiller, thank you for posting the excellent photos which show the proof of that to the forum's readers.) The Willaims Cleaner base-stud has a large dimple in its center ...and the Gardiner Explosive's nozzle has a large hole going all the way through it, into the minie's interior.

ModernMiner's minie is a typical "generic" version of yankee-made .58-caliber "3-groove" minie. Diggers typically called it a 3-ringer ...but what you see on its body is grooves, not rings (which are raised, not "indented').

I can say with ceertainty that there is no exact (nor even "nearly" exact) matchup for MordernMiner's minie in any of the various reference-books on civil war bullets.

Some people here who are familiar with civil war minies might think the large stud in the cavity of ModernMiner's minie is a "teat" ...which a few varieties of civil war minies do have. But that stud is much larger than any "teat" seen in the "teat-cavity" minies.

I'm also quite certain that ModernMiner's minie did not leave the factory -- or the bulletmold -- in the form we see in his photo (having a large stud-like projection in its base-cavity). Meaning, it was modified by somebody, most probably a soldier, after its original manufacture and issuance to the troops.

I can think of a possible reason a soldier modified this minie. There are two varieties of civil war bullets which were manufactured with a similar-looking stud projecting from the bullet's base. One is a Williams Cleaner (as shown in Timekiller's photos). The other is a Dimmick ...which actually has a thick stud projecting from from the center of a conical base-cavity. Perhaps a soldier had seen one of those varieties, and just for fun, decided to add a base-stud to a generic .58-caliber 3-groove minie. So, he made a hole in the minie's cavity and forced a stud into it. (Notice that the lead stud is tilted sideways, and the stud's bottom has a flattened spot, possibly from being "tapped" into the hole the soldier made.)

As I said I don't do much civil war stuff.(yet) Way I see it if it wasn't for the stuff I go after there wouldn't even been a civil war. But you can kill my theory purdy quick by checking the end of the nub sticking out.You may have to check it well cause I'm thinking that it's a bullet that either flipped around in the air and hit something or it done it as it was coming to the end of it's flight path & the ground bent it cause it hit something the rim is bent & the nub is bent.The hole may be packed with hard dirt. The diameter is the exact as yours but I don't know the lentgh.
Reguards,
Pete,

Guys,
I can't thank you enough for all the help and info you provided. We always learn something new here on Tnet.

Pete,
No letters on the bottom, and the length is just under 1".

Should we mark this one as solved?
Thanks again,
Doug

 

[timekiller]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

No Buddy I wouldn't I like to see what it turns out to be.I have no more info.Just my thought's after looking at bullet's all morning. But no Doug just want to learn as much as you do.
Take Care,
You digging Nut!
Pete,

 

[duggap]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

I am going to agree with Cannonballguy. It is a typical 58 cal minie. Now as to the base, I have dug a couple with that in the base. Usually there is melted lead around where the bullet comes out. I don't feel like I have a definitive answer as to how the base got the way it is, but I do feel heat had something to do with it. Regards.

 

[DirtDigler]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

I agree, it could well be the work of a soldier in the field. Maybe he needed a cleaner, so created this homemade version to do the job.

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: CW bullet ID needed - Ever seen one of these?

Thanks to all of you for your help. We'll mark this one as solved.
-MM-