CW bullet ID help

[gtoast99]

Hey ya'll!

I found these at last weekend's Mine Run group hunt. Three ringer for size reference, but measurements provided below. Both were found within a few feet of each other.

The one on the left is 0.51 inches diameter, 0.97 inches in length, conical cavity ~0.33 inches deep. I think maybe a 52 Enfield or "Green bullet".

The center bullet is 0.51 inches diameter, 0.89 inches in length, cavity about 0.62 inches deep and 0.20 inches in diameter. At first I was thinking St. Lewis Cosmopolitan, but I believe the base on that is just a shalow punch mark, not the incredibly deep base cavity on this one.

Thoughts?

 

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[gtoast99]

Is it bad form to bump this for the evening crowd? We shall see, I suppose. Anyone?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Bullet #1 is a CS-made Enfield, possibly one manufactured after the CS Ordnance Department ordered minies to be cast a bit smaller than they had been earlier. That order was due to problems with "oversize" minies getting issued to troops, who discovered they were slightly too large to fit into the rifle's muzzle -- at a very bad time for that discovery. So, although your minie #1 measures .510 it is for a .54 rifle.

That being said, its diameter may have been reduced slightly by acidic soil ...like what happened to your bullet #2, which was presumably dug at the same spot or soil-type as bullet #1. Bulllet #2 is definitely a badly eroded Type 2 Williams "Bore-cleaner" bullet, missing its base disc.

If you own a Williams base-disc, measure it with digital calipers and you'll see it is the correct size to fit the long narrow hole in bullet #2's base.

 

[gtoast99]

First of all, THANK YOU so much for taking the time to reply!

I agree that the first bullet is some version of smaller diameter Enfield type bullet, and I'm good to call it such.

But I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the analysis of the second. Having shown in to several long-time diggers and bullet collectors in the field (40+ years of experience), the consensus seemed to be "I don't know what it is, but it's not a Williams cleaner". There is no evidence of being carved, nor of any groove markings whatsoever. Furthermore, I find it highly suspect that this particular bullet would have lost more than 10% of its diameter to erosion, and lost any evidence of the rings (if it is a cleaner), while other bullets from the same area are of an appropriate diameter for their type and lost no surface features. It just seems highly suspect to me. I would honestly believe a drilled-out cosmo before a William's cleaner, if only based on the analysis of the long time diggers who handled this bullet in person.

I'll keep looking for an answer on this one, but its cool either way. Thanks again for taking the time to comment, and you may be right, I'm just not seeing it right now

 

[CoilyGirl]

Nice bullets!

 

[Ihatepoisonivy]

I agree that it is some sort of cleaner bullet by the design of the bullets base.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Pretty sure CannonBallGuy is right ! but if it is not then it may be a botched made Enfield highly doubt it but i've dug pretty odd looking Enfields before!